There has to be some cutoff between designation and no designation or else there’s no point in having a designation. That’s like saying “what’s the point of 18 years old being considered an ‘adult’? A 17 year and 355 day old person is the same level of maturity. Why do we cut it off at 18?”. You have to have some barrier for which there is a distinction or else there is no reason for the distinction in the first place. What’s the point of taking all the exams if there is no barrier for the credential. You can just make the same argument endlessly. Someone with 5 exams is almost as good as someone with 6 exams right? Well someone with 4 exams is almost as good as someone with 5 exams right? I guess no exams is about as valuable as an ASA right? Where is the line drawn?
I argued it’s not a 20%+ increase in value. Arbitrary number, but the point is there isn’t a huge jump there in competency. Not being able to buy alcohol until you’re 21 is kind of a yes/no thing you can either do it or not, you’re either an adult or not. That’s why they have hard lines. A credentialing process should either (A) teach you how to be more competent or (B) prove you are minimally competent. Our exams don’t really do either because you don’t need to know anything about probability theory to do my job. If you want to claim that the totality of exams proves minimal competency then you can either have one huge raise when they are all done, like passing the BAR or a Medical Board, or you can have it be a gradually increasing slope since they force you to take so much time, but there is simply no justification that you have become greatly more competent with 6 vs 5 exams. You want to give people their $2-$3k exam raise each time that’s not unreasonable. Especially when other people don’t take the same exams, we don’t test for communication skills, etc. a person absolutely can do a better job with 2 exams than with 7. Yet our industry will pay the person with 7 significantly more a super majority of the time.
I’m trying to tell you ASAs get paid more because the credential has value. If you don’t think it has significantly more value than not having it then maybe you’re in the wrong profession
it's ridiculous that they are trying to solve a supply/demand issue by "enhancing" the FSA pathway rather than addressing the real issue....STAGNATING WAGES relative to alternate careers that utilize similar skillsets.
Crazy how we were both talking about exactly what you just said like a week ago and got downvoted to hell and now all of a sudden it’s a popular opinion
SoA doesn’t have control over pay. Unfortunately, I fear the increased frequency of exam offerings will further suppress our wages. We will be accountants soon enough.
because its easier to blame others than take a look inwards. I asked what they have done? have they gotten at least their ASA? Have they switched jobs?
Not really about what I’m getting now it’s moreso about what’s at the end. You can check the salary survey that this thread did recently. It’s a little absurd that FSAs of any experience are making 150k TC. Plenty of engineers have a ceiling of around 200k which is about where FSAs max out. It’s not just about now but the future. Is the grind really worth it for a mediocre salary? That’s the question I’m essentially asking.
Hey man I know what you could do. Since you think actuarial pay is so mediocre, why don’t you just leave and go work with your anecdotal STEM friends. You’d be taking one for the team by dropping supply and boosting pay for the rest of us. Thanks!
It’s always so strange to me how people react so angrily to posts like this. I guess you must fit into the demographic I was describing. I mean the data is out I don’t really think it’s debatable anymore. You can look up salary surveys on other STEM professions and see I’m not lying. I don’t think it’s unfair to make a valuation comparison to other careers and feel that we deserve more. In my opinion when comparing our talent to professions that require similar skill/intelligence, yeah, our pay is mediocre. The data is out there I don’t know what else to tell you. I don’t feel the need to defend actuarial and am currently investigating other options. I somewhat like the work but it’s just a shame that the career doesn’t pay how it used to. I don’t understand why it’s a shameful thing to be ambitious for more but it seems like this community feels it is.
I understand this post because I was the same way, but you can’t look to the people on this sub to motivate you. That’s gonna have to come from you. Can you handle adversity? I don’t know. It sounds like you’re in a rough spot and if you manage to pull through and pass an exam I commend you for it. With that being said, I can’t motivate you, that’s gonna have to come from you. I will give you some advice though. It sounds like you’re trying to make up time by studying for two exams at once. That’s just going to put you more behind. You need to focus on one exam and pass one before you do the second. If you feel like you can’t study for exams and can’t pass them that’s fine there are plenty of adjacent careers where you don’t have to do that and can still make a living. The problem is we can’t decide that for you only you can
Lot’s of things. At some point I realized I needed to get my shit together and study because I didn’t have any backup careers as lucrative as actuarial. Grew up lower middle class and wanted a better life for myself. Also had some people in my life that passively-aggressively would call me stupid and a bum and I wanted to prove them wrong. You can find plenty of things to motivate you but I think in this career you actually have to WANT it because those who don’t get weeded out
I said FM. Conceptually P was much harder but there were few concepts so once you understood them you were done. FM concepts weren’t very hard but there were a ton of them and the questions were tricky
I’ve honestly been pretty pleasantly surprised with how many people know what an actuary is. A lot of girls have said “Oh you must make a ton of money and be really smart”. I really don’t make a ton and I’m definitely not that smart but I mean I’ll take it lol
What I'm curious about is has anyone at a non-UEC university decided to go CAS instead of SoA due to this? With the whole "watering down" of SoA and the fact that you have to take some pretty challenging classes as well, regardless of which school you go to. I know there are a couple extra steps for UEC, but still.
I’m guessing there has to be something going on with building permits or something. There’s just absolutely no way that if this is a truly free market that builders are not constructing houses in the thousands. The margins must be in the 6 figures right now in the northeast
I’m not envious, but as someone who is doing as a career change and taking fellowship exams in my 30s, I abhor it when people that got their FSA under the old school curriculum try to pull rank on us.
Pay has been increasing for actuaries. We hired a pre-ASA for 110k base just recently with 1 yoe. This is not to mention that each company has open positions all the time now. Supply of good candidates will continue to decrease since no one wants to take 10 exams and work in insurance while you can get a degree/ boot camp and get a tech job (even amidst the layoffs). Gen Z doesn't care much for insurance from what I've seen.
Sorry dude, I have to be serious because every single comment is sarcastic and making fun of you for worrying. There's absolutely nothing to worry about, it was a vague threat from someone who has no power over you. No job will ever have any access to whatever "record" this person was referring to, they're just trying to scare you. Everyone is egging you on in the comments because it's such a small issue that they're making fun of you for worrying, your responses seem to indicate that you're missing their sarcasm. Just ignore the comments and relax, you'll absolutely be fine and a potential employer could never find out anything about this.
Even if they did see it literally no one cares. I have coworkers that have admitted to cheating in college in front of supervisors and no one gives a shit
Not sure what your budget is but you can purchase a 6 month license of the ASM manual for $139.
What the fuck. This is the most insane thing I’ve ever seen.
Less than 5% of ASAs at my company ever have to sign anything though, that’s my point. Means nothing for competency in most positions.
There has to be some cutoff between designation and no designation or else there’s no point in having a designation. That’s like saying “what’s the point of 18 years old being considered an ‘adult’? A 17 year and 355 day old person is the same level of maturity. Why do we cut it off at 18?”. You have to have some barrier for which there is a distinction or else there is no reason for the distinction in the first place. What’s the point of taking all the exams if there is no barrier for the credential. You can just make the same argument endlessly. Someone with 5 exams is almost as good as someone with 6 exams right? Well someone with 4 exams is almost as good as someone with 5 exams right? I guess no exams is about as valuable as an ASA right? Where is the line drawn?
I argued it’s not a 20%+ increase in value. Arbitrary number, but the point is there isn’t a huge jump there in competency. Not being able to buy alcohol until you’re 21 is kind of a yes/no thing you can either do it or not, you’re either an adult or not. That’s why they have hard lines. A credentialing process should either (A) teach you how to be more competent or (B) prove you are minimally competent. Our exams don’t really do either because you don’t need to know anything about probability theory to do my job. If you want to claim that the totality of exams proves minimal competency then you can either have one huge raise when they are all done, like passing the BAR or a Medical Board, or you can have it be a gradually increasing slope since they force you to take so much time, but there is simply no justification that you have become greatly more competent with 6 vs 5 exams. You want to give people their $2-$3k exam raise each time that’s not unreasonable. Especially when other people don’t take the same exams, we don’t test for communication skills, etc. a person absolutely can do a better job with 2 exams than with 7. Yet our industry will pay the person with 7 significantly more a super majority of the time.
I’m trying to tell you ASAs get paid more because the credential has value. If you don’t think it has significantly more value than not having it then maybe you’re in the wrong profession
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Crazy how I said this exact same thing a week ago and got crucified for it
Was this your point?? I thought you were talking about how we need 300k to live in NY.
If you actually read my comments I literally said we could increase our pay if actuaries weren’t so complacent. Almost word for word
it's ridiculous that they are trying to solve a supply/demand issue by "enhancing" the FSA pathway rather than addressing the real issue....STAGNATING WAGES relative to alternate careers that utilize similar skillsets.
Crazy how we were both talking about exactly what you just said like a week ago and got downvoted to hell and now all of a sudden it’s a popular opinion
I know isn’t it ironic. You and I say it and we get booed off the stage. SOA comes and says the same exact thing and everyone shuts up and listens.
Honestly.
SoA doesn’t have control over pay. Unfortunately, I fear the increased frequency of exam offerings will further suppress our wages. We will be accountants soon enough.
We’re basically already getting accountant pay
because its easier to blame others than take a look inwards. I asked what they have done? have they gotten at least their ASA? Have they switched jobs?
Not really about what I’m getting now it’s moreso about what’s at the end. You can check the salary survey that this thread did recently. It’s a little absurd that FSAs of any experience are making 150k TC. Plenty of engineers have a ceiling of around 200k which is about where FSAs max out. It’s not just about now but the future. Is the grind really worth it for a mediocre salary? That’s the question I’m essentially asking.
Hey man I know what you could do. Since you think actuarial pay is so mediocre, why don’t you just leave and go work with your anecdotal STEM friends. You’d be taking one for the team by dropping supply and boosting pay for the rest of us. Thanks!
It’s always so strange to me how people react so angrily to posts like this. I guess you must fit into the demographic I was describing. I mean the data is out I don’t really think it’s debatable anymore. You can look up salary surveys on other STEM professions and see I’m not lying. I don’t think it’s unfair to make a valuation comparison to other careers and feel that we deserve more. In my opinion when comparing our talent to professions that require similar skill/intelligence, yeah, our pay is mediocre. The data is out there I don’t know what else to tell you. I don’t feel the need to defend actuarial and am currently investigating other options. I somewhat like the work but it’s just a shame that the career doesn’t pay how it used to. I don’t understand why it’s a shameful thing to be ambitious for more but it seems like this community feels it is.
I understand this post because I was the same way, but you can’t look to the people on this sub to motivate you. That’s gonna have to come from you. Can you handle adversity? I don’t know. It sounds like you’re in a rough spot and if you manage to pull through and pass an exam I commend you for it. With that being said, I can’t motivate you, that’s gonna have to come from you. I will give you some advice though. It sounds like you’re trying to make up time by studying for two exams at once. That’s just going to put you more behind. You need to focus on one exam and pass one before you do the second. If you feel like you can’t study for exams and can’t pass them that’s fine there are plenty of adjacent careers where you don’t have to do that and can still make a living. The problem is we can’t decide that for you only you can
How did you find your motivation, or what led you to change?
Lot’s of things. At some point I realized I needed to get my shit together and study because I didn’t have any backup careers as lucrative as actuarial. Grew up lower middle class and wanted a better life for myself. Also had some people in my life that passively-aggressively would call me stupid and a bum and I wanted to prove them wrong. You can find plenty of things to motivate you but I think in this career you actually have to WANT it because those who don’t get weeded out
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I’d really like to hear your findings if you don’t mind sharing
Will each individual response be public, or just the aggregated data?
Will IFM get credit for this?
I said FM. Conceptually P was much harder but there were few concepts so once you understood them you were done. FM concepts weren’t very hard but there were a ton of them and the questions were tricky
Most of the time no one has any fucking idea what you do… so if you’re trying to use the profession to fuck… not the best idea.
I’ve honestly been pretty pleasantly surprised with how many people know what an actuary is. A lot of girls have said “Oh you must make a ton of money and be really smart”. I really don’t make a ton and I’m definitely not that smart but I mean I’ll take it lol
“So your pretty much an underwriter?”
Oh man I really hate this one
Well shit
What I'm curious about is has anyone at a non-UEC university decided to go CAS instead of SoA due to this? With the whole "watering down" of SoA and the fact that you have to take some pretty challenging classes as well, regardless of which school you go to. I know there are a couple extra steps for UEC, but still.
Yes I’m genuinely upset lol
It's almost unexplainable how the Northeast is bucking this trend. I feel for you, man.
I’m guessing there has to be something going on with building permits or something. There’s just absolutely no way that if this is a truly free market that builders are not constructing houses in the thousands. The margins must be in the 6 figures right now in the northeast
200 base
Is this accurate??
I'm in a related field, actuarial, and hiring is very high right now
Lol I’m also an actuary and part of the reason we’re trying to hire so much is because we pay like 60% of what data science pays 😂
200k doesn't seem to be that significant anymore. I know fresh FCAS with 6 YOE that get offers at least in the 160k base range.
Good, they should. It seems like fellows in both societies have been making 200k for years at 10 YOE with no growth. Hopefully that starts to increase
I’m not envious, but as someone who is doing as a career change and taking fellowship exams in my 30s, I abhor it when people that got their FSA under the old school curriculum try to pull rank on us.
Is it harder now?
I'm sorry actuarial pay isn't what it used to be.
It’s crazy how 6 months ago this comment would’ve gotten downvoted to hell. Now people finally realize the bs of the profession
Pay has been increasing for actuaries. We hired a pre-ASA for 110k base just recently with 1 yoe. This is not to mention that each company has open positions all the time now. Supply of good candidates will continue to decrease since no one wants to take 10 exams and work in insurance while you can get a degree/ boot camp and get a tech job (even amidst the layoffs). Gen Z doesn't care much for insurance from what I've seen.
Yeah imma need to know what company you’re at
Sorry dude, I have to be serious because every single comment is sarcastic and making fun of you for worrying. There's absolutely nothing to worry about, it was a vague threat from someone who has no power over you. No job will ever have any access to whatever "record" this person was referring to, they're just trying to scare you. Everyone is egging you on in the comments because it's such a small issue that they're making fun of you for worrying, your responses seem to indicate that you're missing their sarcasm. Just ignore the comments and relax, you'll absolutely be fine and a potential employer could never find out anything about this.
Even if they did see it literally no one cares. I have coworkers that have admitted to cheating in college in front of supervisors and no one gives a shit
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With both