1. My wife and I don't carry because of mass shootings. My wife and I carry because of specific targeted threats of anti Asian violence that have been voiced directly at her, in broad daylight a few blocks from our house.

  2. In a nation where the police have no duty to, and just like it Texas and Parkland, refuse to help, I am not interested in relying on them for my own personal safety.

  3. The police actively prevented parents from helping. In fact, yelling in to the school to yell "help" if you need help.

  4. A "good guy with a gun" in my mind is the person hired to run towards dangers (LE/Military/Armed guard at a school) or the person forced to defend themselves or others.

  5. You can stack your good guys with guns next to your thoughts and prayers... the problem is singular to the US. There needs to be rigorous enforcement of existing laws, the implementation of new laws and a reasonable network of services to assist mentally unhealthy individuals. The good news is there are number of safe, liberty loving countries that have this problem under better control. Imitate some or all of their approach. I am a gun owner and an NRA endorsement will get you an automatic rejection from me at the ballot box.

  6. See this I dont have a problem with but the majority of people I see spouting the “good guy with a gun” “we should all be armed” rhetoric are saying it because they think they could handle the situation. Honestly if tomorrow BIden activated the national guard and stationed on soldier at every school until we move some policy I think that would have been a pretty bold move. That being said it still rounds back to my point that if we want to be a “gun culture” we should probably be far better trained than it appears. When the police and armed forces are rarely getting range time but we have members of congress and random citizens talking about arming teachers the discussion is already in a ridiculous place.

  7. As a soldier, I can say that the person that goes to the range twice a year gets arguably more practice than most army units. Especially when it comes to handguns. I have only been trained on the M4 platform and we only shoot once a year and less than 100 rounds. Also, I’m not sure what you mean by “high powered rifle” because an M4 shoots a tiny little bullet. Maybe a garand or something else that fires a 30 cal.

  8. I have a buddy who is a LA County Deputy Sheriff. Many years ago he invited me to go shoot with him and some other cops, along with my wife. My wife, who only shoots occasionally, was grouping way better than the cops, which mildly pissed off a few. It didn't help that I was rubbing it in, and laughing. It was well known at the time that they only practice enough to pass yearly testing.

  9. I'm not sure this is a great place to ask this but how do you deal with heavily armored opponents? Obviously the center mass shot isn't worth a damn anymore.

  10. This is kind of my point. Even the people we assume are competent as a society largely are not. I bring that up because the response is often get is “but look how many veterans there are” high powered rifle is just an all encompassing term. What I really mean is we are seeing police heavily outgunned so I’m not sure what the expectation is for the person responding with next to no range time and a handgun.

  11. I think the realistic factor comes in that guns are a right and that isn't changing. (I believe that if this paradigm shifted, those in power would act in their own interests and only ensure that those they do not agree with cannot have guns.)

  12. All rights are not absolute. I believe we should 100% defend the right to bare arms but we should not approach it from the stand point that every single American should have a gun or that it should be easy to acquire one. Imo the barrier should be high but accessible.

  13. Poorly worded, or rushed legislature can and will do just as much damage to minorities as direct discrimination.

  14. I think every point if you raised needs a long and difficult conversation except the point about law-enforcement. That problem is less complicated. Eligibility requirements have been dropping. Skill level has been diminishing. The amount of time set aside for continuing education and training has been diminishing. Interest in law enforcement as a career is dwindling. State and local police have turned into fiefdoms of good old boys or Chad’s still angry and frustrated about their divorce.

  15. I don’t use anything below a .30 caliber bullet size , but police aren’t carrying .308 on a regular basis. As a shooter at a training ranch says, ‘I shoot .308 because it. shoots. thru. shit.’

  16. If wording is the only thing you take issue with in my statement that’s pretty pedantic considering the situation we are in as a society.

  17. You would take an untrained person with a gun firing in a room full of people over trying to implement any policy relating to firearms is my point. Our options are not just a defenseless society and relying on people who are just as likely to shoot us as the assailant. If framing the conversation in the real world where the vast majority of gun owners are not competent is a problem we need to reframe the conversation.

  18. I get the whole well how often do they train argument. As well as the stationary paper targets vs someone/thing moving. However you have to keep in mind that not everyone who carries believes they would be Rambo in that situation. My goal is move and escape firstly and engage only if necessary.

  19. I would say you aren’t the person I am talking about in my post. When I have said this in other threads I frequently get “but what about veterans” and irl I feel like I am surrounded by people who think they are Rambo which drives me absolutely insane. I just desperately want the level headed people here to have a seat at the table for these debates rather than those who poorly represent most gun owners. I’m not trying to say no one should CC or protect themselves only that we should approach discussions about firearms, deterrent, and answers to our current problems as a society from a place grounded in the reality. That reality is the good guy with a gun saving the day before anyone is hurt is largely a myth.

  20. I wonder if it's possible to change gun culture like we did for cigarettes. We can't have cigarette billboards, flavors and we have anti-smoking campaigns showing that smoking is gross. Guns have a "cool" factor. We have billboards advertising gun ranges with an AR logo in our neighborhoods. Guns are supposed to be tools with a purpose of shooting to kill as defense. However, guns are offered in shiny finishes and pretty colors with websites advertising these selections to "fit your personality" like it's a fashion accessory. Could we promote PSAs for young people marketing gun use as weak? On a side note, I also think we should not allow these shooters to be named. They should always be "John Doe."

  21. Whelp if verbiage is what really stopped the conversation for you it probably wasn’t a conversation worth having.

  22. since i think nothing will change in gun culture, can we at least have reinforced classroom doors and backdoors for escape?

  23. Ted Cruz is out here suggesting the exact opposite saying there should be one door as if that’s not the worst possible plan. We can’t turn schools into Alcatraz these kids are there to learn and build their lives. I mean what are we not going to have recess anymore?

  24. I don't go to the range as much as I'd like because of ammo prices. I think all your critiques of the average CC'er not having the skills and training necessary to stop a mass murderer are valid. However, armed robberies are a much more frequent situation a would-be defender is likely to encounter. Whether fending off a junkie or armor-clad murder, I'd rather be able to put up a fight if I'm backed into a corner or grocery store freezer

  25. We need to have a serious conversation about the supposed "American exceptionalism". More than exceptionalism, it's pure exception. We are the outlier of the Western World. We have school shootings every other week, while the rest of the so called developed world has never seen one or only a few rare occasions. We have thousands of homicides and suicides with guns compared to just a few in our counterparts. We have people filing for bankruptcy to pay for medical treatment, or people that have no access to medical treatment they need at all. Our school system is great when it comes to universities, if you have the money to pay for tuition or the connections to get in, but public schools are falling apart, k12 services are inadequate, support for working families is non-existent, there almost is no paid parental leave. Houses are increasingly not affordable, public transportation is barely there in major urban areas, but in newer cities and in suburban areas is often a mirage.It's not just guns, it's a wide array of different problems that are compounding and making our society not livable. This is unsustainable.

  26. You probably getting negative responses because you have weird framing and rather specific issues about a specific "culture" or "mindset".

  27. OP, honest question: with all you have stated, would you prefer that no civilian was armed if you were at the grocery store and sometime started shooting?

  28. My preference would be to know the civilian pulling out their weapon had some kind of competency. There’s so much talk about standing up to the government and taking down the bad guy and everything indicates the vast majority of gun owners are in no way prepared for any of the scenarios they talk about.

  29. As long as unelected official (cops) enforce law with a gun, guns should be available for law abiding citizens. Don’t tread on me.

  30. I find the majority of conversations about “a good guy with a gun” to be dishonest or mischaracterizing about what that actually means.

  31. Yea good guy w a gun is pretty much a fantasy. I carry daily and if there’s an active shooter, I’m not going to be a hero. I’m running. But if I’m cornered or trapped, I’m going to give hell.

  32. A MF'er with an AR is gonna have everybody who has a std duty pistol out-gunned. It's just a fact. Pretending otherwise is naive... just like pretending that arming teachers is any kind of solution.

  33. I would venture to say those who walk out their door with the intent to shoot up a school / concert / whatever, are as you describe "incompetent" - yet seem to not have any issues. I would say most CCWs are more often equally or better matched than these nutjobs...

  34. This is why terrorists pick soft targets which will literally always exist. I’m all for having a resource officer at every single school in America but these people will just move on to whatever other target they can find. If it’s not a deterrent at this point when we have more guns than people why would it be in the future? The best deterrent in my mind is having a serious conversation about firearms and who in a broad federal level sense should and should not have access to them going forward. That conversation in my mind starts with understanding that the majority of people with firearms are unprepared and untrained. I see a lot of good comments on here from people who’s heads are in the right place but in my day to day life I just don’t see that normally. It’s people who vastly overestimate their ability to rationally react in this situation who are now arming themselves because it’s so easy to do so and that absolutely terrifies me. I mean we could require every gun come with a certificate to a free course on safety but instead we are getting rid of the only barriers to people walking around like this is literally a John Wayne movie.

  35. So you believe an irrational person that wants mag dump on unsuspecting people walking thru a mall is going to rationally do the math and estimate how many people are carrying in that same mall and run the calculus of how many people they can shoot before one of the ‘good guys’ shoots them?

  36. I have such mixed feelings when it comes to military / police when it comes to active shooting situations. Not only is it bad when cops shoot people in their own homes because they’re armed (think no knock raids like or Brianna Taylor or ambushing people like Ryan Whitaker due to a noise complaint. The video of his death is particularly graphic, but telling about how LE conducts calls.) but they shoot unarmed people at an extremely high rate as well as shooting

  37. “If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail” certainly comes into play. I took a course taught by the local sheriff back in college and man the amount of times we discussed deputies being shot and killed would literally put anyone on edge. He posted the number of police officer killed in the line of duty on the board before every class. We cannot police with the mentality that everyone is there to kill you and citizens should not be afraid of officers. We desperately have to built that trust.

  38. Im about to carry because my spouse is NB and when waiting in line to vote some women behind us said "Its the transgenders that are getting covid, I hope god strikes them all down." I ain't about to Fuck around and find out if they can't wait on god.

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