1. The part that enraged me the most was when Lonnie suggested Joyce wasn’t doing a good job of parenting cause Will went missing. WHERE WERE YOU? What a sack of shit.

  2. You're not wrong about Lonnie. I absolutely agree with you about him being absent and the impact it has. But I'm curious how you think he would have been able to stop Will being taken?

  3. And no one noticed until like 24 hours later, because they thought he went to bed early and left early for school - not their fault, obviously. :(

  4. I was bullied in high school. I was never strong enough to fight back. I do not blame El for doing that. A whole freaking room bullied her and no one seemed to care it was so sad

  5. I said this to someone at work. Angela is capable of mental/social violence, which can cause as much long term damage as physical violence. Why is it Elevens fault she feels more comfortable with physical violence? Now I'm not saying go around smashing everyone that upsets you, but bullying is torturous and should be treated as such

  6. I think that speech he made about how he was doing this because it’s the only way he could have a life while witnessing other people live in shitty situations or kill themselves really makes him a little sympathetic also.

  7. When they descended further into the Russian prison to the storage room I started cackling when I realized bound & gagged Yuri went down too of his own volition because he was just as curious.

  8. I unironically didn't find Brenner that hateable same way I didn't with Thanos. I mean they're both twisted and cruel in many ways but not really malicious. They have a cold apathetic facade but deep down they're willing to give their life for those they care the most or rather their motivations. Him crying when El tells him that he's the monster just says so much about his character. I just see him as a madman rather than an evil guy although that's just me.

  9. A good written villain is different to a hated character though. I always differentiate these two types of characters, the villain did bad things and was evil but if he doesnt act like douche or do annoying things, is still more enjoyable to watch compared to the characters that arent evil but act completely asshole and get on the audiences's nerve.

  10. Honestly, billy was bad but it’s truely not FUCKING FAIR, I heard about the runaway max book but haven’t read it yet, it’s so goddamn sad for him especially

  11. This is most definitely the right answer. What a monster; he’s the reason Billy got to the point that he did. Billy deserved some well-needed therapy and a redemption arc.

  12. Much worse than being a deadbeat; he reconnected with Joyce solely with the intent of profiting off the (assumed) death of his child. Most of the other villains have some degree of redeeming qualities, but not this guy.

  13. And he’s not just regular passive deadbeat. He’s active profiteer deadbeat. Like, he’s capable of making an effort, and he applies that effort to trying to profit off his missing son. Fuck Lonnie.

  14. She did a whole presentation about a hero for people with disabilities but relentlessly bullied someone who likely appeared to have disabilities. 🙄

  15. Same. I just can't stand her, it's too realistic. I don't care how many people say she is one dimensional, from the bullied perspective it's not that different.

  16. YES, SAME. I was bullied too and every moment she was on screen I wanted to rip her face off and that bitch deserved a roller skate to the face. Should have smacked her again tbh

  17. Agreed, she has no redeemable qualities at all. Jason while terrible, had good intentions like honestly if you didn’t know any of this shit was happening you’d see he was just hurt

  18. Lonnie. Everyone else was either doing their job or a child who is the product of their upbringing. But Lonnie sucks in every way possible including abandoning his family, rejecting Will because he suspected Will was different(gay), and then only coming back to his family because he suspected he could profit from the death of his child. (See also: Billy’s father) I can forgive/rationalize a lot, but I can’t forgive/rationalize being cruel to your own child.

  19. Jack is a hair above Brenner. This list ranges from just bullies to child abusers and murderers. Jack and Brenner are BY FAR the worst.

  20. Yeah, not only is he trying to kill a child just because he assumes that she may be the reason for bad things happening, he's also torturing people and he murdered an entire lab full of scientists and soldiers.

  21. This. I mean, yeah some of guys on the list are annoying, but only Jack is literally hunting kid and wishing to murder just because he believes she is problem. Like she might be the reason, but what if she is the only solution as well? That's unrealistic part, every government in the world would try to capture and control her, not just murder (unless they have dozens of kids like that somewhere else).

  22. For me it’s Brenner and not close. The worst villain is the one who can convince their victim that the villain’s evil is for the victim’s own good.

  23. Agree, Brenner was a true asshole. His last action before he died was to try and gaslight El one more time. He was lying not just to the kids but to himself

  24. What pissed me off the most was how arrogant and reckless he seemed to be with what he was doing. In season 4 especially, he went through a lot of effort to give El her powers back- which bear in mind are tossing thousand-kilo objects like they're toys and remotely exploding people's brains anywhere on the planet- and then immediately betrayed her because he was so confident he could control her, despite all evidence to the contrary.

  25. I'm surprised I had to scroll this far to see someone mention Brenner. He's the root of all the chaos, yet he still manages to gaslight his own "children" into thinking it's their fault. To add to that, he experiments on them and makes them think that he's the good guy...ugh

  26. It's because people react more when something is relatable. People will watch some pretty graphic depictions of major wounds (people getting shot, breaking limbs, etc.) without really reacting much, but show them a seen of someone stubbing their toe really bad and watch them wince.

  27. Dr. Brenner! This man literally caused the apocalypse with his experiments, and has knowingly ruined so many lives, all while taking the attitude that there is no possible way that he could be in the wrong. I was so happy when El refused to forgive him.

  28. Yep! Evil, abusive narcissist with a savior complex. He neglected / abused Eleven so much she has trouble speaking and writing. That's insane. And by the way, I read people saying "she should speak better by now." Maybe? But in real life, Jeanie (Genie?) didn't, a famously abused child who was not taught to speak - was studied because they were curious if she would. Granted, she sadly did not continue to receive care on it but still, she never did learn. Someone close to me I know was neglected and has trouble speaking. It's not an intelligence thing, its abuse and neglect. That wasn't to you btw. Was very satisfied with Brenner's death.

  29. I agree. The actor himself is very charismatic and it makes for an interesting portrayal of someone super evil but thinking he’s doing the right thing/too caught up in his own hubris to see wtf he’s doing. But he is the entire reason all this shit happened. He bad lol

  30. I can't hate Billy. He has issues, sure, but he was a kid who needed therapy, not a villain. His possession was what made him vile, but then it wasn't Billy anymore.

  31. Papa. That lying sack of doodoo manipulated Elle until his very last breath. He is the mindflayer of the right side up. Seriously. Manipulated people into doing his bidding and one was his right hand man/general.

  32. What makes Papa evil is the same thing that made Thanos evil - he justified his actions by convincing himself that everything was out of love, and the greater good justified treating those kids like caged animals.

  33. Everyone is talking about Angela, but Troy was way worse than her, Troy was racist, homophobic, and TRIED TO KILL MIKE! He intended for Mike to kill himself by jumping of that cliff, and Angela’s bad, but she never tried to kill someone

  34. You're arguing over two children who are bullies, meanwhile there are people like Grigori and Sullivan on the list who straight up murder people.

  35. Absolutely Angela, she was a cruel little bitch for no reason. Everyone else with the exception of Mikes bully had a reason, explanation or purpose.

  36. Billy was still a massive piece of shit though. Why do people ignore the fact Billy chose to continue the cycle of abuse instead of breaking it? He nearly killed Steve, was a racist piece of shit to Lucas and made Max's life a living hell.

  37. better yet, throw a parachute just before tossing them out, that way they know what it's like to fight for their lives against evil.

  38. Jason was trying to enact revenge for the death of his love. He was trying to be John Wick but ended up being so consumed by grief he became half the man he was before.

  39. The fight scene with Steve was perfect. Loved that whole arc. Him getting stabbed with some kinda drug. Great moment. And ya the way he beat Steve, could leave some real damage. To kill a person in a street fight it’s more prone to happen from soccer kicks or stomps. But prolonged unanswered punches to face from mount is not good at all.

  40. Because she’s so real to so many people. It’s Umbridge syndrome, people hated her more than Voldemort because she’s a realistic person that people have encountered and dealt with. People see their childhood bullies in Angela.

  41. No one wants to realize that Angela is probably acting out of “hurt people hurt people” because…well, they didn’t develop her character or show anything to imply it (except her entire character). But it’s usually the case. Not usually—overwhelmingly almost always. So, yeah, papa is crazy, Angela is a teenage girl with a shitty coping mechanism and bad attitude.

  42. Angela was the most annoying. Billy was the most antagonistic and obviously racist. You can make the argument that none of the dangerous evil force of the Upside Down would be possible without Papa though.

  43. It’s interesting seeing how people respond to these questions. Angela was a bully. Col. Sullivan killed people and sent a hit squad to murder some teenagers. I mean, really. Some people have a very parochial view of things like this.

  44. I think its also about villains that hit close to home. Almost everyone knows someone like Angela, a popular bully who you wish to see humiliated. Most people have never had a personal experience with someone like col Sullivan, so the reality of it is almost unimaginable. Just another TV villain.

  45. The key difference for me is that Col. Sullivan acted under the incorrect but plausible belief that Eleven was responsible for the deaths in Hawkins. Angela was just straight up a bully for no good reason. Having said that, I'd pick Billy. Fuck that guy.

  46. I think people will connect more with realistic characters, good or bad. Many have had their lives made a loving hell by an Angela- not many have had to run for their lives from a Sullivan.

  47. Tbf, an Authoritarian stopping at nothing to kill an impossibly effective psychic assassin gone rogue seemingly killing other innocent children.

  48. i hated angela the most. her casual cruelty was too real and nothing got under my skin more than her brutal and routine bullying of el.

  49. Also his sense of humor is just too funny, Murray and Joyce didn’t know when to laugh and then him with his wheezing laugh lmao

  50. I mean it’s dr brenner right? I mean the guy basically kidnapped kids and treated them like lab rats and tortured them when they did anything he didn’t like or would not do. I mean come on?

  51. Horrible person. Great character imo. I tolerated watching him on screen far more than say Angela or Sullivan. They were static characters who merely existed to progress the plot. I liked Brenner a lot more as a villain, he had more to offer.

  52. Skate face. Sure she was a massive mean girl caricature, but she had no redeeming features and I cheered when El belted her.

  53. lonnie all the way. fuck that guy. when will went missing and jonathan went to lonnie's to look for him, he checked the car's trunk. the damn trunk

  54. Out of that bunch? Brenner. He could have given El a semblance of a normal fucking childhood and he did not. She could barely speak when people found her and you fucking KNOW that he had the capabilities to do better by her. Fuck him. If you love a child then you don't keep them locked up like a lab rat in a fucking hospital gown with their head shaved. He loved what El could provide for him. I'm glad his ass is cactus grass.

  55. The real answer is Suzie, because if she just gave Dustin the square root of pi without making him sing that song then Hopper and Joyce would have had plenty of time to close the gate before being caught by the Russians.

  56. Thank you for noting that! I resent the hell out of her for that. Yeah, she obviously didn't really believe the world was at stake but ... they definitely would have closed the gate in time without that cringey, needy thing.

  57. The goddamn spitball kid, with his stupid smile and big white fucking teeth, I wanna knock them down his stupid throat! Fuck that guy!

  58. Jonathan and Will's dad, easily. Everyone is else is human/rational on why they're against the main characters. But that "dad" is just a greedy deadbeat

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