1. I use AP all the time on the freeway on a 2022, I don’t think I’ve ever had it. What’s it feel like/when does it happen?

  2. Ive been an MYP22 owner now for about 7 months. I love it and i like Tesla… but i get the phantom breaking in the highway, on cruise control, on auto pilot and when using FSD. I have to always hover my foot over the accelerator to be ready to punch it when it happens. I could be doing 70mph and will drop to 50-55 mph… here in FL on I-4, happens a lot.

  3. Here’s a video example of what happens. Clear day, wide open highway, car brakes hard from 120km/hr down to 70km/hr - Vision-only Model 3, not FSD, just AP.

  4. What I noticed in my area when on autopilot is that in the last few years they did some freeway construction and even Google Maps in Android Auto will think I exited the freeway for a second in some spots and then pops me back on my route...in my Tesla, I'll be doing the freeway speed (70) and then around those spots it'll hit like a 50 or 55 zone and brakes. Then it will go back up to 70 or I take over and floor it. I need to test it more for consistency but at least in my case, I think that's it.

  5. It's especially bad in construction zones where the road location no longer matches the car's database. To get past this issue, they need to have the car track what road you're on and assign the speed limit to that section of road rather than constantly finding the road nearest to to the car's current position without keeping track of where the car was a second earlier (so it can think you were on the interstate one second going 70+ mph, and on a parallel feeder road a second later with a speed limit of 35 mph while still going 70+ mph). At the very least, apply that logic when the car is traveling over 45 mph.

  6. I have to take it out of cruise control once I get to the Maitland exit heading towards orlando. Same spot every time. Coming back east in the afternoon on the express lane it happens about in the middle of downtown.

  7. It's definitely a hard thing to program, and would understand if it happens on FSD. But not letting drivers just use ACC instead of AutoPilot until problems clear up is annoying. It's a dangerous circumstance for someone who's never experienced it before even if they're paying attention. Only takes someone following too closely when the car decides it needs to brake.

  8. I-4 is horrible in terms of phantom braking..... i am in the same area... i have honestly stopped... even if the speed limit changes, the decrease in speed should be gradual... like 1mph/s or something like that... no idea why it brakes like i am avoiding hitting a deer... so frustrating,..

  9. Watch the speed limit symbol when it happens. There are areas where I live this happens, however, it is not phantom braking but instead bad map data.

  10. The biggest issue I'm seeing is that it is training a pavlovian response to always believe the system is wrong so we may through habit push the accelerator when the system works correctly.

  11. That's strange I have had my Model Y LR for roughly the same time period and I've never experienced phantom breaking. But then again I don't have FSD.

  12. The single thing I hate most about my M3 is the phantom braking. Happens all the time on cruise control and more often than not on AP/FSD Beta. I almost never use either anymore just because I don't want to get rear-ended on every single drive. The roads I take for my commute have people tailgating me even going 5-10 over more often than not. AP handles them fine otherwise.

  13. Yeah, same experience here. I absolutely love everything else about the car, but the phantom braking is an enormous pain in the ass. I do 95% highway driving and also take 6-10 road trips a year, and not having functioning cruise control (even dumb cruise control!) sucks so much.

  14. They do need to be on RED alert when this happens to cars. It is dangerous. To the public it feels like it is treated as a casual bug by the company.

  15. I don't have it happen often but when it does man it scares the crap out of you. Car randomly slowing down hard when there is absolutely nothing in front of you. It is extremely jarring/confusing to be suddenly wondering if you are about to run into something and nope there is nothing. Ugh

  16. This is good. Phantom Breaking has really hurt my Autopilot experience. It makes using autopilot less relaxing than manually driving…

  17. I had it when driving over a bridge. It forced the speed limit for the street under the bridge. The issue is that it uses the map as source for the speed limit. It’s stupid because it shows the speed limit signs in the preview and ignores it.

  18. I mean I think it uses whichever is lower to be honest. I have a mountain rd that I drive regularly and autopilot will slow down to 25mph at every speed limit sign that is for trucks only, so it's 50 than 25 than 50 than 25.

  19. The phantom braking a bad and a major issue.. I was doing 85 with just cruise on while driving to and from Vegas last week. Multiple times the car just slammed on the brakes.. straight road, day time, no cars around me..

  20. A year ago when we first got our Tesla there wasn’t a lot of phantom breaking but it has been getting more frequent lately. I don’t know why the car constantly does this even if the weather is clear.

  21. As a radar tesla owner I've noticed autopilot has been getting worse too. My route hasn't changed, just tesla software. My theory is that they've been removing radar dependence sneakily for the last few months. Things have gotten significantly worse the last few updates.

  22. I think I used to have phantom braking. I purchased the FSD subscription and was added into the beta and haven't had phantom braking since. I just recently drove 1500 miles on a road trip with no issues. I did that same trip about a year ago before I was in the beta and had about 8 phantom braking incidents if I recall correctly.

  23. FSD is a different stack. Autopilot is old tech that they don't bother updating and will stay like that until they move everyone over.

  24. It’s not unreasonable to expect these features, FSD & autopilot, to not be “beta” indefinitely. At some point in time they should perform as a final/finished product.

  25. For those who don’t have this issue, it seems to be associated with the types of roads one travels on.

  26. I have had some scary incidents approaching tunnel openings. On E18 in Norway while approaching one of the tunnels, the car suddenly slams the brakes while driving 75mph with a lot of cars behind also.

  27. This just happened to me yesterday, but on a whole other level. It’s done or before, but it legitimately went from 80 to 55 in seconds and scared the living you know what out of me. If a car was behind me even moderately trailing me it would have slammed into the back of me.

  28. Excuse my ignorance, but does phantom breaking only occur when using AP or FSD? Does it happen if neither are active?

  29. Only on AP and FSD. I don't actually know how bad it is on FSD though. Mostly the complaints are about hard braking on highways and for most people that is still using the AP vision stack, not the FSD stack. Rumors are that the FSD stack is much better about this. I hope it's true.

  30. It is weird how there are some people like myself that it doesn't happen to and others that can't use it at all. I only have had it happen on the inside lane when passing an exit with a posted speed limit that is reduced. Happens in this exact spot every time so I drive in the middle lane without incident.

  31. Went on a 4,600 mile trip and had one minor phantom braking event. Going up over a hill and had an overhead sign on road.

  32. I’d sign that. I can’t understand why my dumb Tesla lane departure warning goes off constantly while driving in the middle of the road. Add to that the “4 years ago” self driving beta, humans on mars, and dogecoin and Elon is basically the next Elisabeth Holmes.

  33. I specially have not installed the beta even though I own FSD because I want my radar. They fucking went vision based only on the last standard software update and nobody will downgrade to re-enable. How do I join and how the hell do I get them to re enable my radar??

  34. I'm convinced most instances of phantom braking are due to the car mistakenly thinking that lanes are merging when they're clearly not.

  35. Unless the plaintiffs opted out of Tesla’s binding arbitration (which you have to do within 30 days of getting your vin assigned), under current US law, Tesla’s arbitration agreement is enforceable and anyone who did not opt out cannot be part of any lawsuit including a class action.

  36. There is precedent to show that arbitration agreements hold up about as well as 100 page long terms & conditions (which nobody ever reads), in the case when consumer safety is at risk. Not saying this guy has a case, just saying arbitration agreements don’t let a company release all liability.

  37. Is anyone filing a class action lawsuit over the deactivation of radar units? There are many scenarios where cameras couldn’t possibly see a rapid deceleration more than one car ahead, and deactivating radar makes our cars indisputably less safe in those scenarios.

  38. It should be noted that people use the same words to describe entirely different behaviors, some mean emergency braking only (rapid slow down from current speed to zero); some mean phantom slow down (a gradual decrease of 10-15 MPH) some mean a brief minor braking (often a 5 MPH decrease). These happen under different conditions

  39. Phantom braking happened to me a few times when I tried NoA for the month, but since then it hasn’t done it (2021 M3 with Tesla Vision)

  40. I have had phantom breaking but far less then what it seems most posters here have, but I guess my question is what are the damages for the lawsuit.

  41. Sound like phantom braking is a feature to prevent drivers from sleeping. No videos of Tesla users napping on the high way for a while

  42. Bullshit, if anything this thread is full of people who think every opposing viewpoint is a bot, and every opinion I align with must be real people. I only use autopilot sparingly so I wouldn't comment on this normally but fwiw I haven't encountered a phantom brake event yet.

  43. Hi, bot here that bought a radar Model 3 in 2019. I used to have phantom braking, but it's been perfect for the last year or two, especially since switching to Tesla Vision. I dont have any undivided highways near me where people say they experience the issue the most, so that's probably the issue. But phantom braking instances on divided highways are way down.

  44. Maybe I’m in the minority but I don’t have any issues with my 2020 Model 3, I’d say roughly 15k miles using AP on the freeway. I’ve had a few phantom slowdowns but I just take over then resume AP.

  45. Has anyone actually compiled a master list of all the occasions phantom braking occurs to see what the common "causes" are? I've seen a few videos where it was caused by an open country road and it was either a shadow from a tree across the road or an oncoming truck in the opposite lane.

  46. We just did a road trip of about 200 miles. Wide open freeway, light traffic, no oncoming traffic, no tree shadows, clear sky, no other obstructions. Had phantom breaking from 75-35ish twice before I disabled FSD. Scared the ship outta me and the family. If someone had been behind me they would have rear ended me. It's a major problem.

  47. Well lucky you. My 1 month old Y is deathly afraid of oncoming semi trucks on two lane roads and literally slams on the brakes on Highway 80 in parts of Nevada and other random highways. It’s a massive unsafe issue and I’m thrilled it’s under investigation by the feds. Such a stupid issue for such an otherwise remarkable car.

  48. Same. My theory is it is really only common on 1-2 lane highways with no center divider. Even in my case, my 2018 that has vision rn works without issue.

  49. As best I can tell from trying to research it, none or possibly one. Everyone always says “it’s going to cause an accident” but it never actually does, and if it did it would be the following car’s fault for not maintaining proper stopping distance. Meanwhile AP saves lives every day.

  50. Not defending Tesla, but some of the phantom brakes could have legit reasons. I think it could help a lot if the car display such reason when such brake occur, such as:

  51. Well you guys are delusional, this lawsuit isn't going anywhere. I'd like to know how the accusing member has been impacted financially by this, Tesla's are worth more than they have ever been on the used market, he didn't mention being in an accident, so I doubt he has been.

  52. Happens when someone is coming onto a freeway right next to you the Tesla brakes pretty hard to let other cars in notice it happen a few times.

  53. I've had this happen and it's predictable so I move over before it slams on brakes. It just needs to ease off. 1 actual phantom brake was when I was along side a 18 wheeler. The other was going under an overpass.

  54. It happens consistently on my M3P when going over a crest on the highway into the decline of a hill. It's as if it can't read that there is a road briefly so it tries to stop from going off a cliff. Then it sees there is no cliff and it's just more road so it's like "lol jk, everything is fine".

  55. My wife always tells me to turn off autopilot because she is scared of the phantom breaking. We have experienced it at least 3 times together.

  56. Yeah I almost got into an accident because of this... was on the freeway and a guess someone was following me to close and then a phantom break happened. The guy got super mad and sped up in front of me and tried to brake check me 3 or 4 times.

  57. I've had Phantom breaking happen to me a bunch of times as well, luckily cars have not been close behind me. 80 down to 50 is what i usually have happen.

  58. Prior to FSD Beta, I never had phantom braking. Honestly thought people were exaggerating. Now I get it at least once per mile. Really struggling what to do, I can’t own a car without cruise control. And I love the car more than any vehicle I’ve owned…. Just want regular AP back.

  59. Honestly I think this will only be solved when they merge the FSD code for the regular autopilot and roll out for the whole fleet

  60. IMO they need to stop development on FSD until they unfuck the problem that exists on literally every car they sell.

  61. Good. Tesla really, really needs a wakeup call on the quality of their software. I've had phantom braking a few times on my Model Y with radar (and a few braking incidents where I could see why it hit the brakes, but it was completely unnecessary) and numerous other software issues. Just yesterday the backup cameras went black with the exception of the backup lines for about 10 seconds as I was backing out of my driveway. The sentry mode viewer is still a buggy mess. I still find myself waiting 5-10 seconds for the car to let me in even though my phone is right there. Musk needs to carve a few million out of his monthly cocaine budget and make sure the devs, managers, and QA are doing things right and not being overworked and understaffed.

  62. Not sure I would ho for this. After all we all acknowledge this is Beta software by pressing the button. I really hate Phantom Braking myself but I know Tesla is working hard to resolve.

  63. This is because Tesla got rid of the radar. Sounds more like Boeing getting rid of one of the angle of attack sensors because of conflict. Instead of Addressing the root cause of the difference, they eliminated the signal itself. Tesla could do with some six sigma black belts.

  64. The software should be recalled. This is more of a safety risk then most required recalls. My truck was recalled because the review camera fucked up sometimes. Not a big deal. Phantom braking is a BIG deal and will kill people.

  65. If someone tried to save your life because they thought you were in danger, but it turned out you weren't in danger after all, would you thank them for their good intentions, or sue them?

  66. Ironically my vehicle updated from last week's update and it's been having phantom braking at least 5 times a week. Wish I could roll back the update.

  67. Phantom braking occurs with almost every mirage that has another car in front of it. FSD/AP suddenly sees what it thinks is another car but is it's reflection in mirage. How on Earth does one code for mirages? This was a big issue on the last drive I did from Texas to Oregon and back. I submitted hundreds of instances of phantom braking due to mirages. No other issues, just mirages.

  68. Took a long roadtrip in July, can confirm it was still an issue. Happened twice within about 1000km so had to stop using it for the remainder of the road trip.

  69. I'm in agreement as I think everyone is that phantom braking needs to go. But I'm curious, what does everyone expect to happen to "fix" it? The FSD/AP software is getting incrementally better as they train it to handle input better. It's not like they can just pull a lever and say, "we turned off phantom braking". Doing something heavy handed like that would essentially be telling the car to "ignore the input that has made the car think it's going to run into something". The natural outcome of that is that eventually a car will run into something because it was forced to ignore the input.

  70. The only thing Tesla needs to do to fix the complaints is to reduce the slowdown rate to be gradual whenever it mistakenly thinks there's a speed limit change. If the braking weren't so sudden it would be fine for the driver to manually change the speed limit back up. The ONLY time there should be aggressive braking is when there is an imminent danger or obstruction that the car detects. Otherwise, just gradually slow down there's no reason the car needs to slam the brakes if there's no danger even if the speed limit really down drop from 70 to 50.

  71. I think they need a class action for the phantom braking with the Bendix system. When a giant truck randomly slams its brakes I think its a little more dangerous.

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