1. i got a mail from frommer yeeeears back. i involved a friend whos a lawyer specialised in these things. i paid him a friends fee of 150 for some letters and frommer about 300 (bc they can only get the difference of what they asked for if they still take you to court which they normally then dont do if you pay any substantial amount. at least back then it was like that).

  2. Lucky you. I got mail from Frommer to a couple years back. But it was not at my home but at the house of my parents. I did download the video in question. My Parents got a laywer. But it didnt get dropped or anything. I payed somethin like €1500-2000 with laywer fees instead of the €800 requested by Frommer.

  3. Happened to me in 2018. Can assure you they are legit and operating within the German law. Torrenting a film is defined as distribution of copyrighted materials basically. If you sign the document and pay the damages you are admitting guilt and if you get caught again they can ask for waaaay harsher penalties. As suggested by the comment above, get a lawyer. I also used solmecke they handled it all. It's still ongoing but so far haven't paid them or admitted guilt at all.

  4. The problem is already from 2020. So two years ago, you already reviewed the start of this. See the top of the page. Get a lawyer...

  5. The date: Such a 'Mahnbescheid' will be delivered in a special yellow envelope. The mail person will note the day they put the letter into the mail box on the envelope - top right corner. The date given on the envelope is the day from which on the two weeks are calculated.

  6. €1382 FINE for a torrent download!? That is insanity! In the US we just get an email because ISP’s know it’s not necessarily you who done it. Possibly a guest of an AIRBNB, a guest at home or your neighbor.

  7. The date of the Mahnbescheid seems to be the 09.08.2022 (upper right on the second picture; and according to the dates mentioned under "IV. Zinsen" on the first image).So I guess it is legally valid now due to OPs failure to respond to it within 2 weeks. Is it definitive done now or could OP still raise an objection against it?

  8. I don’t think you need a lawyer yet, simply deny the claim (line 2) if you’re sure you didn’t download or share anything. The see if the lawyer Frommer (they are well-known for that kind of business) will put charges on you, maybe you need a lawyer later on

  9. Second is incorrect, Vollstreckungsbescheid = Veräumnisurteil (§ 700 Abs. 1 ZPO), so you can appeal with Einspruch (§ 338 ZPO). Usually there are also no further fees

  10. When you get a lawyer, it's not YOU who will answer. Most lawyers will drop you the moment you start to do the talks on your own.

  11. I know those lawyers. They are specialising in this kind of stuff and making huge money with it. First, deny the allegations on the form, then Get a lawyer and some advice and let them write a letter and fight it. Usually Frommer stop bothering you when they realise you're fighting it because then it will cost them money.

  12. I second this. Especially don’t call them giving them any information on your own. Some people I know digged themselves in trouble as they called and recognized the file they downloaded. Frommer would need to prove it was you if they take you to court, which often is not simple as networks can be hacked..

  13. It will cost them time and will cause individual extra effort which is money, too, so they will settle for a part of the original claim.

  14. Yes, except get a lawyer first, asap. Don’t do anything on your own. You have to act quick, because if you don’t react within the appeal period, you get a „Vollstreckungsbescheid“ which is enforceable.

  15. Haha, I looked through all the pictures as well, but didn’t find the anime as well. Went into comment section exactly for this purpose

  16. I propousely and stupidly downloaded dune from torrent, because i am stupid, i got fined 900 euro thank to a lawyer friend i had to pay 700, but no matter what , if u did it u have to pay. If u didnt do it lawyer up immediately!!! It is a lot of money and u are absolutely not guilty , this is 100% not your fault and if they keep ask they are fking mobsters!

  17. Ah that kind of bullshit. I had that as a topic in school once actually. See, here in Germany we have this funny rule. You can just have such a thing send because the Gericht does not (as it says on the first page) check whatsoever if its true or not. So it might very well be that someone just wants to scam money out of you. The really sucky thing is that you can actually get in trouble if you do not respond to that thing. In that case simply sending back the Widerspruch could be enough because they wouldn't want to fight you on fraudulent claims.

  18. Somebody claims the movie was shared = uploaded over your internet connection. Maybe it's not secured or you live with other people or some friend did it, either way you are responsible.

  19. Störerhaftung in Wi-Fi networks hasn't been a thing since 2017 as a direct response to these rogue law firms. So no, you're not responsible for what other people did using your internet connection. You are of course gonna be the one who'll receive the letter though and you (or better your lawyer) will have to make the case that your Wi-Fi is shared with others.

  20. Maybe, if your wifi isn't secured it's possible. I got these letters too years ago. Obviously I had 0,000 seconds (not kidding) a running download.. wtf?

  21. A Vollstreckungsbescheid is typically the last stage of litigation. They're used to get money from you as a debtor. This is NOT an allegation that you torrented, this is a "you torrented, admitted guilt and now need to pay" sort of thing. This wouldn't, or at least shouldn't, come as a surprise for you.

  22. The point most tips here seem to be ignoring is that this is not a letter asking for money, but a form that states a „gerichtliches Mahnverfahren“ has been opened against you at a court. The letters asking for money started coming in 2020 and have probably been ignored. This is NOT a „Just ignore it and maybe it’ll go away“ letter! If you don’t react, it’s like you lost a court case by not showing up, and they will have a „Titel“ against you, allowing them to (without further communication with you!) just block your bank account and take money out until their bill is paid, or send a government official to your house that will just take stuff/money with him. (Yes, there are legal limits to how much they need to let you keep).

  23. DO NOT THROW AWAY THE YELLOW ENVELOPE. YOu have to act within 2 weeks of the date on it. Call a lawyer or the verbraucherschutzzentrale

  24. Well, if you got a "Mahnbescheid" you are kinda late to the party. You should have taken steps prior to this already :|

  25. I work at the goverment in the part wich makes the programms to handle this proceeding. Nice to see something from work here :)

  26. And who will pay for the fees in case he does get a lawyer? Can the lawyer charge the false accuser for the fees? Otherwise it might be cheaper to just pay the fine...

  27. In this Mahnbescheid it is mentioned that they send another on the 26.06.2020 to inform you about a fee for a Urheberechts Verletzung. Did you have received a letter before regarding this topic? Or was this the first one? But you should definitely get a layer.

  28. Get a lawyer ASAP like... Right after your Alarm goes off tomorrow. This is a serious letter leading to court affairs. You should NOT ignore this.

  29. I had a similar experience, my gf did download a movie. The problem is not the singular download but the torrent went straight back into seeding.

  30. Lawyer up and go to your local Verbraucherschutz. They'll help you with this very quickly, since it's still a legal grey area.

  31. Leonine is a film distributor as it says in their name...? They buy the rights to films and sell them to cinemas, streamers and others.

  32. Get a lawyer as quickly as possible, preferably one that's specialized in fighting this kind of state-sanctioned racket, like WBS where Christian Solmecke is one of the firm's partners!

  33. Are you from Germany or outside, what I have regretted not doing from the beginning was written them a mail from outside Germany (through a family member in home country) and saying that you are not in Germany anymore. My lawyer said that would have been a valid defense as they don't follow foreigners.

  34. You do not need a lawyer at this time. You have only fill Out the "Widerspruch" you only make a X at 2 "Insgesamt" and sign in the bottom.

  35. These guys are fucking vultures. I got a letter likes this from Waldorf Frommer 2-3 years ago. Didn't hear from them for a while but recently got another letter threatening with court. I've had everything go through a lawyer.

  36. First: Cool it. You do not need a lawyer for the first and most important step. Check 2 of the form "Widerspruch". Sign it and put your name and address in "Bezeichnung des Absenders". Send it off so that it reaches the court before the end of the fourteenth day after the letter was delivered to you. It is permissible to send it by fax. These are the fax numbers of the court. 09561 / 878-6665 u. 878-666. You may also decide to send it be regular mail.

  37. When I got a fined the original letter had my ip address, network provider, film details and the time. The actual connection was only 1 minute when my vpn was off and no kill switch but Walford Frommer are Warner Bros specialists in this... Had to pay up 1k.

  38. How does the company get the proof from your ISP? Can they just demand it? I was under the impression Germans valued their privacy.

  39. Is this a Mahnbescheid or a Vollstreckungsbescheid? If it is a Mahnbescheid there is an extra Paige for a Widerspruch. Make that now. If it is a Vollstreckungsbescheid make a Einspruch within 2 weeks, on the backside there it is explained what you need to do.

  40. dont panic, i had several of those and never had to pay anything or go to court or something. check out this site, i guess its only in german

  41. A friend got something like this. Lawyers fishing for money. He ignored it and then got another with a lower fine. He refused, gave it to a lawyer and they went away.

  42. This is not a good advice in general, because this here is obviously not a scam, but they DID actually go to court with it. That is a strong indicator for them having technical proof. And a strong indicator for OP having ignored at least two prior letters. At least let a lawyer assess whether or not to ignore something like their first letter. I'm a lawyer and I know MANY people who thought ignoring letters was a good idea. It's like toothache. It may cost money, but it's going to cost more money later if you ignore it.

  43. I don't know, but the fact parts of it aren't printed correctly, doesn't really make it look legit imho... That's just a hypothesis tho

  44. Hallo, legen Sie nicht selbst Widerspruch ein. Dann wird Frommer Legal weitermachen. Lassen Sie sich vertreten. Suchen Sie einen spezialisierten Anwalt. Mit freundlichen Grüßen

  45. This is NOT a fine issued by the court. Someone wants money from you, but will still need to take you to court if you don‘t pay. Deny the allegations and get a lawyer. They will most likely just let the matter rest and you‘ll be fine.

  46. Like MatrixRetoastet said, get Solmecke. I got them and they handled it. Don´t reply yourself, let the lawyer do that. Send them a copy.

  47. Get a lawyer ASAP and do make a „Einspruch“ which means you resist their unlawful claims. But srsly get a lawyer and if you do not speak German get a translator. Depending on you financial situation that will all be paid for. It is sadly a thing that German ISPs sell your info to lawyers and if someone in your family or someone accessing your internet torrents you have just been sold out by your ISP. Now you have to prove it wasn’t you and you‘re out of the misery. But you should’ve reacted sooner.

  48. Germany is full of legal scams. They charge you hefty fines for a trivial things(I understand rules are rules). My point is I need to speed another 100’s of euros to prove I am not guilty. Isn’t it their duty to do the proper investigation?

  49. If an Abmahnung is unjustified the party that sent it becomes responsible for the legal costs. But the risk/reward is bad and most people can’t be really sure their wifi has not been hacked, visiting children have done something etc.

  50. No that is a german law thing what mean you was judged as guilty.here in germany is the process done an no chance to get in revision.the end of the road.but they dont get you by the police in other contrys because thats no secret service thing.mfG

  51. Congratulations - the letter is from Frommer Rechtsanwälte - the number 1 warning lawyers for file sharing in Germany. I hope you didn't file an objection, but hired a lawyer to take action against it. There are umpteen lawyers on the Internet who specialize in dealing with such warnings. But if I get it right, you've been past that for a long time and already in debt collection.

  52. It's not a fine it's a lawyers bureau that is sending out these "Abmahnung" letters in order to scare you (no legal advice)

  53. Login to the UI of your Wi-Fi-router. Often you can check all devices that have been logged in there or are active. If you don’t have 10 million friends that have been logged in there at some point, you might see if someone unknown is using your Wi-Fi.

  54. I actually went to a moderating service because I didn't want to deal with legal proceedings. There are services specifically for this. They will talk to the legal company for you to try and avoid a court hearing. Reduced mine down by half, but they do charge a fee, so I ended up paying about 300 euros less total.

  55. Crazy that so many people here said they paid and just as many said they never paid and never heard from them again (like me, I ignored them and never heard from them in 4 years) it was about illegally streaming / watching Godzilla

  56. you have to do a wiederspruch - next step of them will be to sue. but many never do. this is definitely not the first letter you got - so you better find that one. It will have dates of when the incident happened.

  57. Got something similar years ago. Went on for several years and in the end I went to trail. Lost it. Was expensive. I still have no clue how I got on the list of the law firm which wanted the money from me. Never had a torrent system - my best guess is someone who has been to my flat back then (had many guests), had their laptop with them, logged in to my wifi, and they had a torrent running. Quite shitty experience and unfortunately I still don’t know how to prevent that other than not letting anyone use my wifi.

  58. I've once got a similiar mail years ago for a game I actually did pirate, but I just ignored and I never heared again from them, over 7 years ago now, I guess it was just some scammers

  59. I dealt with them for 11 years. Originally they wanted something similar to 1300€. I know a couple lawyers. So I called some told me I have to to pay some told me not to haha. So I investigated a bit and I found out the way they received the data of me of a torrent page was super shady. Furthermore I found out the could not prove that I was downloading anything cause they only used me as a torrent for less than 1 minute and since uploading was on slow they had basically nothing. (Given that fact that I actually downloaded something which I didn’t) I went to another lawyer told him what I found out and than after a few letters and was it done. Frommer and partner are sending these things out like candy. That is such a bad practice to make money shameful.

  60. Where I reside they have no standing if they don't provide a legitimate avenue of making the specific product available for consumers in the country. This after huge numbers of people received letters similar to yours on behalf of some foreign (English) license-holding company in cahoots with a scummy lawfirm in the country - working on their behalf to squeeze people - rather than actually put to market the IP, they had bought from foreign studios for potential consumers in the country and region.

  61. I Had the Same Thing! I gave it to a lawyer. He did everything and i paid him 80 Euro. I think even before i Had Something Like this and i Just send it to the Trash, there we're more Letters, wanted more Money but some day it Just stopped. Good Lück!

  62. Years ago I got a similar Letter about a Song of a Band that I never Heard and not my Musik is. And to that time i had no own Internet Account anymore.

  63. Did they present clear data as evidence? If the claim is legit, they usually give you a time frame and a hash code of data packages they received from your IP address. Otherwise this looks like a bogus claim to me. Should there be more to that case, you might want to look into your router logs to try and identify the device that torrented the data. Maybe someone is using your WiFi without permission, maybe you got malware that is doing the torrent. Evidence for either can get you off the hook.

  64. Most of the time there is no mandate, so there is no trial. If they do, the penalties are usually much less than the amount claimed.

  65. Check your router to see what devices have accessed it. Change your password regardless. If you see an unknown device, verify it isn't yours or a friend's and record any and all information about it before you remove it so you have evidence of unpermitted access to your network should you need it. Don't show anyone this information unless a lawyer advises you to. Just keep it in your back pocket.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

News Reporter