1. Just because that’s what you’ve been promised, doesn’t mean that’s what you’re gonna get. People who think there aren’t medical necessities for abortions need to check themselves.

  2. Not to mention: sometimes your body miscarried but does not expel the embryo/fetus. A D&C (medically the same as an induced abortion) is absolutely medically necessary.

  3. The Oklahoma abortion ban prohibits abortions starting at “fertilization.” Hormonal contraceptives could possibly prevent a fertilized egg from implanting and so can copper IUDs. No woman knows they are pregnant pre-implantation. If you take this law to it’s logical conclusion, women couldn’t use those forms of birth control and be sure they weren’t causing an “abortion” unless they also abstained from sex. The Oklahoma bill allows individuals to sue people who aid or abet abortions. It’s probably impossible to prove any specific case where implantation was prevented (though I have every confidence people will try), but is that required? Or can someone just sue obgyns who prescribe birth control and argue that statistically, they must have aided some “abortions”?

  4. Oh no no, you don't understand, the people who think there are no medically necessary abortions are almost all guys so they don't need to learn anything about pregnancy since they'll never have them. Also their opinions on pregnancy are more important than women's cause again guys. Don't worry about it

  5. The USA still are not at a point where they either prioritse health or care in health care - money and easy votes are everything that system has to offer. Whilst being one of the most expensive ones around the world in a country whose life expectancy is terrifyingly low for a first world country.

  6. I’m a bit weary of these replies that keep flooding in (or more accurately, having to use brain cells to respond), so I’m changing this comment:

  7. Aside from rare edge cases there are no scenarios in which it is medically necessary to abort a pregnancy, definitions are important here, abortion is the termination of the fetus/child. You can remove a fetus at any point after about 18 to 22 weeks and it can survive on its own, if there were a medically necessary instance where removal of the fetus was required , there is no scenario in which aborting the fetus is necessary for the mothers health. (A friend of mine’s father is a surgeon at a top hospital in New Jersey)

  8. Whenever someone says, "do your own research," those exact words in that exact order, I immediately know that they are full of shit and there is no need to do any research into whatever they are saying.

  9. "do your own research" = "google it until you find a source (no matter how sketchy) that agrees with you"

  10. Yeah it’s dumb, I’ll literally link research papers and read them, as well as evaluate the authors when discussing stuff online I feel like others should as it actually educates you on the topics and maybe even change your opinion.

  11. Thank you for this. My professor said we had to do our own research to write a paper. I just emailed him to tell him he was full of shit. I'll let you know when I get a reply.

  12. Man it sucks because "do your own research" as a phrase actually has valuable meaning, but like everything they touch conservatives had to come along and pervert the words into an unrecognizable abomination...

  13. Most of the time they aren’t qualified to do even the most basic research, or literary review (which is closer to what they mean by ‘research’), as they lack the necessary critical thinking skills.

  14. My favorite is when it's something the majority of scientists agree with. Like one time I had an argument with a guy over whether or not plastic in the ocean is a bad thing. He said there is evidence microplastic in the ocean helps the ozone layer or something

  15. They never like it when they say that, so I do my own research and say that I did and the results demonstrate they're wrong, ergo their own methodology contradicts them.

  16. Whenever I go off to do my own research, as it were, on something I usually end up spending a few hundred hours doing nothing but downloading and reading entire scientific journals on every subject even remotely related to the topic at hand just to make sure I don’t miss anything—and even then, as a self-taught non-expert who just happened to have read a lot about a subject, I won’t just use the mere fact I did all this to regurgitate whatever it is that I have read. If I do, I have to cite my sources and encourage people to read them to ensure I’m not misrepresenting it (because I could very well have read it wrong). Overall, as I’m quite aware of the Dunning-Kruger effect and the hubristic temptation to call yourself an expert on something you think you know a lot about, I’ve gone out of my way to avoid falling into knowledge trap, not just for my own sanity, but for the sake of other people who might not definitely aren’t as discerning as I.

  17. Well yes and no - social media and parts of traditional media would have us view/treat monkey pox as a covid 2.0. 10 minutes of looking into it yourself will tell you it's not and it's never going to be - that's an example of a point where doing your own research is a reasonable course of action.

  18. I didn't know that phrase was taken in that way... I should probably stop using it even when I'm being genuinely truthful

  19. There are lots of women that medically get abortion because physically they can’t carry to term without risking their own life. Do these people not know pregnancy in of itself can be deadly to some? Or how about when a baby is basically being made where it will be unfit for life? Forcing a woman to carry what will die before 9 months or the moment it’s born is cruelty.

  20. Anti abortion zealots think that all pregnancies are viable, trouble free if the woman will just 'follow the rules' and childbirth is just a bit uncomfortable. They also think fetuses are healthy or that any defects result in romantically disabled children who are just slightly different. Many also do not care about the mothers health at all.

  21. They don’t care. If a woman dies in childbirth, it’s “God’s will.” If he didn’t want women to suffer and be oppressed, he wouldn’t have created them or something like that.

  22. There is exactly one valid reason to get an abortion and that is, to paraphrase Billie Piper, because you want to. You have no need to provide any further requirements than that. I'm sure that you have reasons for wanting an abortion and I'm happy to listen if you want to tell me, but I won't ask because it's none of my damn business.

  23. What does that have to do with what is discussed? Typically moms choose their child to survive even if its at the cost of their own life. If both cannot make it obviously the mom has to make a decision. No one is rejecting that decision. Obviously miscarriages are a possibility, and if you have one, the dr removes the dead child from you. That also is not being debated against. No one is talking about those rights being taken away. It's hard to know if you are pro life or pro abortion because the things you mentioned are not options that anyone is trying to get removed. And if you are pro abortion do you actually have a reason to be? Because anti abortion people are talking about pregnancies where everyone involved is okay and alive.

  24. This is the pro-life version of Micheal Scott announcing "I declare bankruptcy". Just saying that these things won't happen doesn't mean that they won't happen.

  25. I heard a story on NPR where a Texas woman had a miscarriage, but her body wouldn't push it out. The doctor literally said that she could go to another state for a DC (abortion) to have it removed, or he would have to wait for her to actually go septic because the law would only allow an abortion when she was about to die. They had to wait until she was about to die, and then hope they could save her life, or she could just go to another state for routine woman's healthcare.

  26. I'm personally pro-choice, but as far as I can recall, the instances I've read of this happening have some extenuating circumstance, like charges of concealing a birth, where the stillborn is illegally disposed of, which has long been a crime (same as concealing a death), or child endangerment and manslaughter charges, like drug use resulting in a miscarriage. I am especially conflicted over the latter: e.g., if an assailant punches a pregnant woman in the stomach and it results in a stillbirth, should the assailant be charged with manslaughter of the unborn child, or assault of the mother-to-be? I really don't know.

  27. The Turner Dairies was a godawful book that came out in the 60s or 70s that was written form the point of view of a white supremacist terrorist during a race was in the US. I haven't read it, but I've heard reviews. It's rough.

  28. This is so Brexit but around women’s health. When daughters and sisters and wives start to die from this it will all be “this isn’t the abortion ban we voted for!!!”

  29. That was my question as well. Makes you wonder if this person believes "they can just reimplant it" or "that's not inducing an abortion because..."

  30. Might be a moot point since it didn't pass, but isn't there video of an OK polititician that actually was trying to remove the exemption for ectopic pregnancies. Warren Hamilton.

  31. My wife and I have been trying for a baby for over two years. We’ve used an IVF clinic and had three miscarriages so far. The last one was in the second trimester after the heart started beating. The lungs never developed and wouldn’t develop. There was a 0% chance of developing lungs and eventually the heart beat went away too. When we had the operation, many of the proposed laws would have prevented it and put my wife at risk despite a 0% chance of survival without lungs. As if losing our baby in the second trimester after two other miscarriages and two years of trying wasn’t enough.

  32. I'm so sorry for your losses. My partner and I had several miscarriages as well. I was emotionally wrecked for a few years after. What I call "judgy people" are the worst when you're going thru a difficult time.

  33. I'm adopted. It is so easy for an adopted kid to feel like plan c in this situation. Like, we gave up on the baby we really wanted, and so we decided to adopt. At least that's how I felt. Just be conscious when telling the story to your kid, how it comes across. Adopted kids feel like no ones first choice

  34. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/10/21/oklahoma-woman-convicted-of-manslaughter-miscarriage/6104281001/

  35. So her meth use just gets ignored? We won’t allow pregnant women drink alcohol because of what permanent damage it does to the fetus, but your okay with excusing away her using meth?

  36. Correct me if I'm wrong, but "treatments for ectopic pregnancies" are pretty much just abortions. There's nothing else you can do.

  37. Sometimes they just naturally miscarry, but yes, abortion is the primary method. Most pro-life advocates try to redefine abortion so that when it's medically necessary it's not actually an "abortion", it's just a medical procedure. That's the mental gymnastics they go through to say that no abortions are medically necessary.

  38. I'm always almost impressed when someone manages to write a tweet of this length in which every single word is entirely, demonstrably untrue with this much smug self-satisfaction

  39. A friend of my mom was pregnant of 2 months. She would vomit almost every day for some reason, and that was not only damaging her, but also preventing the fetus from getting nutrients. They had to do an abortion, otherwise she, and the baby, could die. Sometimes induced abortions do have medical reasons.

  40. My fiancee almost died giving birth because she should have had an abortion but her abusive baby daddy didn't give a shit about her life and ignored the doctor. But sure, never a medical necessity.

  41. Yes. 50% of miscarriages end in a d&c a medically necessary procedure. 4/10 pregnancies end in miscarriage. With the overture in 26 states 2/10 pregnancies will end in maternal mortality. Already maternal mortality rate has increased 26% in the past year. Who is ready for a 20% maternal mortality rate

  42. The point of the tweet is that abortion bans will not ban medically necessary abortion. Ectopic pregnancies are fatal if untreated, and there is no way to remove them that doesn't end the child's life (I think they actually have to remove an entire fallopian tube, if it is sufficiently advanced). So these would fall under legal exceptions for medical necessity. That seems to be the sense of the tweet.

  43. I was raised very religious and was a pro-lifer until I left for college and saw the truth when I was no longer trapped in the religious echo chamber I grew up in. This is basically what I was told, that there’s never a medical reason to have an abortion. I believed it, and so did everyone else around me.

  44. they already have criminalized miscarriages. states have explicitly stated that ectopic pregnancies won't be an exemption because they have no exemptions. stop spreading misinformation. dangerous. and unethical. very unbecoming. i mean yeah, you'll score some likes from idiots

  45. Fucking "necessary"? That's the justification? Is the pregnancy "necessary"? Like we're running out of people and we need all the newborns we can get, so it's necessary to carry to term? Like it's "necessary" in this day and age for a woman to be bound to the consequences of an easily remedied indiscretion?

  46. My wife's first pregnancy miscarried at almost 13 weeks. Only options were either give "birth" to our dead child or do a D and C. Both options are traumatic. She chose the D and C at the doctor's suggestion based on her size and the size of the fetus.

  47. I fucked around and got in a debate with someone last week in the pro-life sub. After multiple citations of genuine research I realized I was dealing with an idiot.

  48. When a large amount of their points boil down to it being the parent's fault for having sex you realize that fact pretty fast.

  49. Most of the time it seems to be a willful ignorance in the service of keeping a simple, black and white worldview. The info is cherry-picked to support their feelings.

  50. They think they are exercising “critical thinking” by going against the consensus view, but they don’t actually have the critical thinking skills to evaluate their sources or spot bias in their own thinking.

  51. Just cause you can fit all those words together doesn’t make it true. Dumbass never played a game of telephone before and thinks he’s getting first hand truths?

  52. Oh shit, I totally forgot how talented lawmakers are at considering nuance rather than ideological ferver when they make laws

  53. But natural miscarriages will have to be proven to be natural to the local police. This happened to my very catholic aunt in Cincinnati prior to Roe Vs Wade.

  54. The problem with doing your own research is that critical thinking and Source validation is not taught in schools anymore, so it would seem.

  55. Ngl, criminalizing miscarriages sounds exactly like the pseudo-science, woman-hating, conspiracy-fueled shit that republicans would unironically push for.

  56. 2/10 pregnancies end in a d&c a medically necessary abortion. Without it 2/10 pregnancies will end in maternal mortality on top of our astronomical maternal mortality rate

  57. Not even wrong? No, abortion bans aren't going to do those things. The separate bans that legislators in the South are writing are supposed to do those things instead.

  58. Abortion isn't going to stop for middle class Americans. It's just going to make it deadlier for the already struggling homeless that cannot afford to take care of a child.

  59. No, natural miscarriages won’t be criminalized - but women who have natural miscarriages can now be asked to prove it was a natural miscarriage and not a criminal act. They can now be disbelieved and imprisoned for allegedly inducing an abortion.

  60. It is like that in countries where abortion is illegal, and it has been like that in the US before. I personally know someone whose mother was questioned by police, in her hospital room, after suffering a miscarriage. California in the late 50's/early 60's. Women will be wrongfully convicted of abortion.

  61. That sounds perfectly clear cut and never subjective or up for interpretation and very innocent until proven guilty. Prove a negative - great logic.

  62. And exactly how do you tell the difference between a natural abortion (miscarriage) or a medical one (ie the pill)?

  63. Our courts operate under the assumption of innocence. Prosecution must prove a crime, you don't have to prove your innocence.

  64. Imagine found out your baby is going to have Down syndrome with a CVS pregnant check but you have to have the "most beautiful angel." cuz you blessed.

  65. How to say you’ve talked to a woman or a doctor before without having met a woman or a doctor before. (Or a scientist, or read a book, or had an original and/or rational thought).

  66. I know this line of thinking, not only is it completely incorrect, but it’s comparable to the line of thinking that antidepressants or psychotherapy aren’t medically necessary. Sure, not taking my meds won’t kill me, but I might without them. And even if I don’t, is life even worth living.

  67. I don’t know about the first part (the promises), but I know for a fact that the second part is complete and utter bullshit.

  68. Induced abortion refers to the termination of any pregnancy that isn’t a miscarriage/stillbirth. Ending an ectopic or any other pregnancy that could harm the mother is still an induced abortion. He’s thinking of ‘elective abortion’. Sounds like he really know what he’s talking about.

  69. I have not done my own research. My question however is this. Is what this person saying true? Is it true but out of context? Is completely false? Is it potentially false but it's still up in the air?

  70. There are US states with laws that would make all three situations in the first sentence illegal as soon as Roe vs Wade was overturned.

  71. They’re not trying to ban contraception - just birth control pills, morning after pills, IUDs, etc. You know, the forms of birth control that women control.

  72. The origins of the pro-life/anti-abortion movement are from late 19th century puritans who worked to outlaw contraception as well as abortion as a form of contraception. This was in the early days of the eugenics movement, and based on the idea that protestants needed to have more children or risk being replaced by invading catholics... the two are tied.

  73. A bunch of the regressive laws already on the books, which would trigger if roe is overturned, make it illegal to prevent implantation. This makes many forms of birth control illegal.

  74. Why do they have to point out that miscarriages aren’t going to be criminalized? That seems obvious to me.

  75. They keep pointing it out because they can believe that a miscarriage ( I.e. a natural spontaneous abortion) is always quick and easy and requires no medical support. Sadly not true. The uterus does not always expel the fetus (a missed abortion) or all the placental/foetal tissue. A D&C op is required(evacuation of retained products of conception) and the main purpose of this is to clean out the uterus for maternal safety and to ensure there's nothing left on the uterine wall which could make getting pregnant again less likely. When I was having an apparently natural miscarriage at 12 weeks my GP told me to go to hospital because while 90% of spontaneous miscarriages are trouble free, there is also a low chance of a catastrophic haemorrhage where the mother can bleed to death in minutes, no chance of an ambulance reaching you in time.

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