1. It’s weird to me how all these people think he’ll redeem himself. If George was planning for Tyrion to become a hero, I highly doubt he’d write a scene of him committing rape.

  2. I was biased because of the show had Iain Glenn playing a much kinder and cool version of Jorah in the first three seasons. So when I read the book I was first like ”yaaay Jorah” and then I was like ”Oh no oh fuck oh no”

  3. I read the books first after season 6 of the show. Before reading them Jaime was irredeemable for me, no matter what he did (I had watched the show 3 or 4 times and he never could win me over). After reading them, his chapters are probably my favorite and he has become one my favorite characters. Like any other character from the books, he isn't all good or all bad. He is flawed and has his reasons, good or bad, for what his is doing. Hopefully his arc continues to develop in the dame direction, but anyhow, I suspect it will make more sense than in the show.

  4. Jamie is an easy one but he was really easy to hate until the bath scene. He committed maybe the most selfless act in the series and struggles to cope with being almost universally hated for making a hard choice for the good of the common people.

  5. One bit of double irony I’ve always enjoyed is there’s this theme of Tyrion being Tywin’s true heir despite wanting Jaime for it. In truth Jaime is the better heir now that he’s lost his hand. He’s sharp, he isn’t swayed by flattery, he sees through people’s BS, and he does have Tywin’s no nonsense pragmatism. He is the best choice.

  6. While he’s not my favorite character, I think Jamie might be the most well written character in all of fiction. At least as far as I’ve read. How many other characters can attempt to murder a child at the beginning of a story and still get such sympathy from the fan base.

  7. I still don't by Jaime's redemption arc. Yes, he saved some people by murdering Aerys, but most importantly, he saved himself.

  8. Honestly, he had me even before the bath scene. I remember way way back on my first read, i hated him so damn much, i straight up laughed during the hands tourney when he gets unhorsed and his helm is smashed in and sideways and he has to be lead off the tourney grounds cause he can't see. then even better when Robert is hammered and starts yelling about cersei telling him not to joust, jaime comes up to calm him down and bobby promptly puts him on his ass. but then, that first time I turned the page and saw "Jaime" as the chapter title, i was thinking i was gonna hate that chapter so much. But by the end of it i had enjoyed being in his head so much i was already coming around. By the end of his second chapter i decided "fuck Brans spine, Jaime is my dude". Jaimes POV really altered how i read the books, until then i was team Stark 100%, anyone against them were the bad guys. Sure i liked tyrion but he hated Cersei and Tywin more than the starks did, plus he was cool with Jon. Here was the guy who until then was as big a villain as anyone else and i was actively rooting for him.

  9. Because you realised that it's actually ser Pounce who is Azor Ahai. We've all been there, at least now you know better.

  10. I feel like the second point needs a bit more context. If I remember correctly, he was drunk out of his mind and thought it was Catelyn.

  11. I think at once point Cat says Lysa is a person who desperately needs affection. Jon Arryn is respectful but cold toward her because she had been dishonored when he wed her and she lives much of the year in the Eyrie, which Martin does a fabulous job depicting as a beautiful but sterile kind of hell. Not saying Jon deserved what happened to him- I suspect he thought he was doing enough for her in a loveless arranged marriage with a woman he didn’t understand. But it was a tragedy in the making. If she weren’t so obviously mad and creepy it could have been written in a sympathetic way, but she’s reprehensible from our first view of her.

  12. “He gets you pregnant” is a bit inaccurate, she raped him. If he wasn’t lucid enough to know it was her then he couldn’t consent

  13. I used to think Tywin was this giga chad, super based, high IQ player of the game. But now I think he’s an insecure petty arrogant loser who got his ass kicked by The unfathomably based king in da Norf. And the only reason he won is because GRRM had to make it hard for the Starks.

  14. Where Ned fucked up was in his actions after Robert died. At that point he knows that he is in a nest of vipers yet thinks he can get the upper hand. He should have left king's landing and gotten his ass to Dragonstone or to Winterfell.

  15. It’s easier to just reconcile the boar as Bloodravens fault otherwise the series is literally just 100% lucky contrived bullshit on the part of the Lannisters.

  16. Typing was just extremely ruthless. In real life that becomes a super power. He just did everything as ruthlessly, mercilessly and unempathetically as possible. Amd ge isn't a regular everyday perosn so he doesn't have to try and manipulate everyone socially. He has built in respect and boot lickers by virtue of being low on casterly rock

  17. I see Cat as a person extremely struck by grief and she is incredibly burdened by it. She makes what can be seen as bad or rash decisions because of it.

  18. Still hate her for wanting to kick out all the small folk to be raped and murdered because she kidnapped Tyrion and started a war because she was scared for her child. How many children/families suffered thanks to her? And she wanted them to suffer even more so she could be comfortable.

  19. See me thats reversed. When I first read the books I was of course mad at how she was treating Jon, but I could sympathise with her motherly feelings.

  20. I still hate her for her treatment of jon...she didn't have that scene when she admit she was just terrible and petty for Blaming a kid for the BS of his father

  21. Daenerys Stormborn. She bored me for 4 books before I started liking her in Dance. An intelligent, powerful, charismatic character who is becoming the center of attention of the story. When she comes to Westeros and starts taking part in the actual game, and if we indeed go down the show route, she would become one of the most metal characters in fantasy. Darth Dany done in right fashion will be a sight to read. imagine the shocks and broken hearts but could be great storytelling.

  22. Totally same. I was pretty indifferent to her all the way up until Dance, when I think her character work absolutely shines. You as a reader can see how she still manages to hold Meereen together while just being a 15 year old girl with her own dreams and wants. She really went from a character I didn't really care about to one of the most interesting ones in the series

  23. Yes, exactly! I found her chapters after Viserys' death kinda boring UNTIL the house of the undying. Since then I still found the chapters rather boring, but really liked the character. But in Dance where she finally has to struggle with political matters and so on I started loving the chapters as well. People often don't like the last two book nearly as much as the first three but I think the books get better with every book. Alrhough AFFC is an exception, cause all of my favourites were missing (except Jaime)

  24. I feel like the shit she went through as a ruler in Meereen has taught her a lot of valuable lessons and trained her to be a very good queen in Westeros. But we’ll see if she even gets to rule in the event that fAegon takes the throne.

  25. My first read through I let POV opinions and the shows portrayal convince me that Edmure was an idiot. In hindsight I think he’s probably the best example of what a Lord should be in the entire series. He wasn’t stupid to bring his people to Riverrun before a siege, he simply remembered that his primary responsibility as a lord is to protect his small folk. A military victory at the cost of his peoples lives should be meaningless to a proper lord. And his big military blunder of not allowing Tywin to cross was due to Robb’s failure to communicate his plan to him. In Clash it was clearly said that he left Edmure to protect Riverrun and GUARD HIS REAR. That’s what he did by preventing Tywin from pursuing. He should have told Edmure about his trap before he left.

  26. Yeah, Edmure seems to be the only one who remembers Noblesse Oblige and the feudal contract. All of these smallfolk give you enormous privilege and power over them for 99% of their lives, all in return for you protecting them for that remaining 1% of the time. These are the people you're sworn to defend, not "useless mouths".

  27. Out of everything, "Edmure made the right call" is the hill that I will die on in this fandom. I remember thinking "this is bullshit" when Robb chastised him and it didn't take much to convince me after seeing other people say the same.

  28. The whole Robb and the Blackfish blaming Edmure for Tywin not falling into the trap might be the thing that drives me crazy the most in the whole series. Holy shit Robb it’s your own fault. You should have just explained the plan!!! Wtf!! It’s so simple and yet he deflects all blame to Edmure as if it’s his fault when he never gave any sort of order that indicated ‘yeah let him pass.’ I believe Robb isn’t this devious but damn it almost reads like them blaming Edmure so hard so Edmure will want to do anything to make amends lol, it just drives me nuts.

  29. I used to think Mirri Maz Duur got her comeuppance, but now I’m not even sure if she wanted to harm Drogo to begin with. She gave him medical treatment and he refused it and ignored all her advice. By the time she did the ritual, it might have already been too late for him to be as he was before.

  30. Drogo deserved whatever he got anyway. Dude was a horrific person who deserved nothing more than to die a brutal death. And his son was prophecized to bring death and destruction to countless millions. After what happened to her people I think anybody blaming her is very strange considering she basically had the “kill baby Hitler” choice

  31. I think Mirri Maz Duur had so little scope for justice and she took it where she could, even if it killed her. She had spent her whole life powerless,and she finally had a chance to strike back at her tormentors. And Dany is a Dothraki at this point, she can’t joyously embrace their culture and look forward to bearing the heir that will take over the world and then be horrified she is lumped in with them. I don’t think Mirri poisoned Drogo but there is a possibility she gave him a treatment she knew he wouldn’t stick to, so that his own arrogance would kill him. Same with misleading Dany. I don’t think she made her baby stillborn but she took credit for it as an act of defiance.

  32. Yeah I used to think Mirri harmed Drogo deliberately but I always sympathized with her because I would want to do the same thing. Now rereading IMO it's clear she was innocent.

  33. I used to think Cersei was a shrewd genius when she outfoxed Ned and engineered Robert’s death. Having grown a little older and having seen her from the perspective of other characters, (including Cersei herself), it’s become apparent that she’s a major goof. To paraphrase Tyrion, she has a certain low cunning, but she’s blinded by her pride. Cersei is really a shortsighted dolt who massively overestimates her own talents, gets offended far too easily, and is way too vicious and cruel to over hold onto power in her own right.

  34. All primary characters change during the series. Jaime becomes a decent man, caring father and honorable knight. Tyrion- the evil Imp everyone always thought him to be. Arya- savage little girl, assassin’s apprentice, beggar and thief without identity or family. Daenerys- the Stallion, etc.

  35. I had an opinion that Ned and Howland actually defeated arthur dayne...there was definetly some weird whit going on but no chance they killed the greatest fighter in the seven kingdoms. Howland and Ned are both mid ong

  36. If I don’t get my reed lore in the next book I’ll explode. I don’t want them to beat Arthur or to stab him in the back. I need something interesting after all this time

  37. I hated Jaime in the books 1&2, started to like him in book 3&4 and love him in 5. Now he's one of my favourites together with Jon, Dany and Tyrion (He's not a hero, but a fantastic character nonetheless.

  38. He’s still a piece of human garbage lol no matter his reasons for becoming one. But he’s a very very interesting and well written piece of human garbage who’s on track for redemption

  39. I was always indifferent to Alicent Hightower and sympathized more with Rhaenyra but until recently I started understanding Alicent's motivations when I saw someone's defence of her.

  40. I actually hated Alicent until I realized that after Viserys' death, she did what she had to do to not have herself and her children get killed by Rhaenyra. Sure, up until then she antagonized Rhaenyra like no tomorrow, but she failed to get what she wanted, and after Viserys died there was no one else left to protect them. Her own doing for sure, but her grandchildren did not deserve to suffer for that.

  41. The Daemon fear is real. In the books it's implied he killed his wife, and others (I think Rhaeyra's husband). Since he benefited from the deaths immediately. I could totally see why Alicent did not want HIM on the throne and there was no separation between him and Rhaeyra in the story since they were married.

  42. Sansa was selfish and disloyal to her House. Now all she wants is to be with her family, but she believes she can't anymore. Now I like Sansa a lot.

  43. I think Sansa comes full circle. She starts off wanting to marry the prince and get out of the north. Then she gets a taste of King's Landing and wants nothing more than to get back home. I think she ends up marrying the eventual new prince, (faegon, jon?) not because she wants to anymore, but out of duty/to bring the North peacefully back into the realm.

  44. Same. I know I took at face value when Cersei essentially blames Sansa when talking to Tyrion for their success with Ned, claiming they might not have pulled it off if she hadn’t gone to Cersei…but that’s ridiculous. The only information she received from Sansa that she didn’t already have is that Ned was sending the girls away, allowing Cersei to take Sansa right then as opposed to waiting. She already knew Ned knew about the kids, he told her himself. She already knew he was going to wait until Robert died, and that he was hiring the Gold Cloaks to do it, she had that from Littlefinger. The only thing Sansa was able to reveal was that he was sending the girls away on a ship, but she already knew Ned’s plan and even the timing via Littlefinger.

  45. I disagreed with the 'selfish and disloyal' bits, believing she was a child of circumstance, who couldn't reasonably bear much if any blame given the context.

  46. When was she disloyal? I felt like she was an annoying brat in book 1, because she wanted to he a princess, but only did everything after that in order to survive.

  47. I think Doran Martell and Rhaegar Targaryen are two characters whose opinions I had changed the most. It has less to do with the books and more to do with my growing up. I jumped to a lot of negative conclusions about both of them, some of which I think GRRM intended, but I recognize that those conclusions were based largely on my assumptions and not based on evidence supported by the text.

  48. Doran is one of my absolute favorites in the whole series! I’m curious what kind of “negative conclusions” you had of him in the beginning — it’s been so long that I can’t remember on a personal level what I really thought of him before we got his POV. Would love to know!

  49. That Renly Baratheon was this progressive, democratic King with an almost modern view of rulership, when in reality he was the complete opposite and arguably even a step backwards for Westeros.

  50. I used to feel similarly about the Tyrells. I was sucked in by the beautiful image and then I realized they didn't smell all that great. They are essentially, what I call Diet Coke Lannisters.

  51. I can't speak to his character in such detail, but to me the books suggest that feudalism is so thoroughly shitty that honestly the best ruler Westeros can hope for is just a somewhat stable and powerful one. Renly seems to fit that bill at least.

  52. Sometimes I feel like part of the reason Stannis is so determined to sit the Iron Throne (even if it kills him) is because of Robert. He never got the close relationship with Robert but at least he can get his crown. JMO.

  53. I think Cat was worried Jon would try to usurp her kids and become Warden of the North. If she knew he was a Targaryen, she wouldn't have that fear anymore--although she might fear instead that he would try to claim the Iron Throne which would lead to retaliation against the Starks.

  54. I never thought Stannis would be a good king because he is never forgets a slight . He would need to placate lords and make friends, and the vast majority have failed him. I don’t think he could ever truly forgive that. They are traitors to him and he would not be afraid to make them aware of that. But Stannis is a character I’ve come to appreciate more over the years. I wouldn’t want to be friends with him, but his good points, his loyalty and sense of duty have warmed me to him. The one thing I can’t swallow is him letting Melisandre kill his brother through magic. I hope he just shut his eyes to her ways and deluded himself

  55. I mean why did he get the red wedding right? I think he has some connection to something like the weirnet. He seems to me sort of like a broken radio, catching and sending out signals but none of them complete or intelligible on their own.

  56. I used to think Jorah's love for Dany was a really beautiful thing on my first reading, after revisiting the series I just think its sad and a little creepy

  57. this is def a show vs book thing. Show jorah was one of my fav characters (mostly cuz of how great Iain Glen was) and it was only until i read the books that i realized how weird it actually is

  58. Jorah at that point was unlikely to ever have children, George could have had him grow to see Daenerys as his daughter and feel protective over her as a father... instead we got that. Yuck.

  59. When I started watching the first theory videos back when I started wstching the show in season 6 I was really sold on Varys being a mermaid

  60. When I was young I thought that Gregor was cooler and more of a badass than Sandor Clegane, just cause he's the biggest and strongest. I was so wrong 😂

  61. I did not enjoy most of Daenerys’ chapters in AGOT but now in Clash I actually want to check out what she’s up too (now my dread is whenever I see BRAN on the next chapter). I also thought Sansa was bratty as shit in AGOT but then I legitimately feel awful for her with all the hell she goes through in KL.

  62. I used to hate Cersei. After reading her POVS I still hate her but now I find all the bad decisions she makes hilarious

  63. This is more of a show to book opinion but despite kit being good his Jon isn't a fun and likeable to the people around him compared to book Jon.

  64. Kits portrayal was as good as could be considering the scripts he was given, but Jon is the type of character where you really need to be able to see what’s going on in his head. Also not sure why the show wanted to show him as such a fuck up in the first few seasons. Like him being directly responsible for the halfhands squad being killed. Much prefer the book version where they are stalked for days

  65. For medieval times I think her treatment of him was pretty standard, she wasn’t abusive towards him she just ignored him. Jon probably had a better life than most bastards other than the ones in Dorne. The fact that all of her children with an exception of Sansa loves and adores him says a lot. Catelyns fear of Jon usurping her children came from a very real place and you can see from his chapters that he did want to be Lord of Winterfell.

  66. Idk, Bran and Rickon don’t seem to love Jon that much either. It always were Robb and most of all Arya who carde for Jon the most.

  67. To be fair, with the five year gap that was originally planned I think he would have. I'm pretty sure he would of been sword of the morning if given that time to grow up, but the scrapping of it made Edric too young for him to become a more important character or fulfill whatever role he was originally intended to fill.

  68. Hey, he could still matter in the next couple books! I have this theory that has him going North with the other good BWB members, and him winding up becoming the squire of the next King in the North- Jon Snow. It would be a kickass parallel to Robb and his squires, not to mention that he already has experience with being a squire to an undead guy in the form of Beric Dondarion. Plus he was Jon's milk brother and his uncle was the best friend of Jon's father! So a lot of cool shit could still happen in the next 2 books.

  69. I thought that "Young Griff" being Aegon was absolutely BS crappy writing after reading ADWD until I read the Blackfyre theories.

  70. I though Maester Lewyn was crooked because his story about finding the note was improbable at best. But he turned out to be a Stark loyalist.

  71. Arya has not been corrupted or turned into someone who she's not. In fact, her fierce desire to punish the people on the list has been a coping mechanism and has helped her keep her identity.

  72. TV does the visual thing. Books do the symbolic and meaningful thing. And GRRM allows us in on introspection. Arya's uphill journey starts when she and Jon together acknowledge that "life is unfair" and life has handed them the short end of the stick. Of the six Stark kids, they are the lowest and have no acceptable future. Both show fortitude, resolve, and courage in their fight to retain their identity while finding their place in the world. Their journeys so far strongly imply that even a bastard and a skinny tomboy can become heroes. I liked them both from the beginning, but have found their uphill struggles to be downright inspiring.

  73. Jaime redemption arc. At first I used to think there a big redemption arc for him...in reality not really hes done nothing aside from wanting to fuck brienne which is treated as his redemption? Also his sins are wayy to big for a redemption( he wanted to maim arya cause cersei told him too and wanted myrcella to wed joffery which is..) I struggle to have sympathy for someone like that.

  74. I don’t think it is a redemption arc (or intended to be one) but is instead just an arc of humanising and giving depth to a character who has done many unredeemable things.

  75. I think there's a theme with both him and Theon, that even when people try to become better and renounce their previous ways, they don't do an immediate 180° like most Heel/Face Turns in fiction. Even after they try to become more heroic, they're both still kind of jerks at times. Redemption is a hard road to work towards, and isn't like flipping a light switch.

  76. Alayne stone Is thr best thing that could have happened to sansa's character....and her arc SHOULD HAVE ABSOLUTLY been adapted on the show

  77. I used to think Varys’s “for the realm” thing was him being honest. And until I read Fire & Blood, I thought the Targaryens were boring.

  78. I used to think Robb was the faultless boy wonder and the defeat was purely Edmure’s fault. In reality Robb failed to communicate the plan because he didn’t fully trust him.

  79. Arya Stark, she’s boring and dull and honestly I think the show runners gave her more of an important role than she deserves. Jon should have killed the night king, you know like the entirety of his storyline suggested

  80. I didn’t like Tyrion’s chapters at first but his ADWD chapters are some of my favorite. Same with Jaime, I always hated him for pushing Bran and it made me not give his chapters a chance but I realize that you don’t have to like a character to like their chapters.

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