1. Yeah, I always wanted to fuck my uncle and kill my brother....for sure that is a common problem in America's households today.....

  2. I get what he means. I come from a 'broken family' and a very large extended family and there's definitely factions within it. Jealous aunts, disgruntled uncles, violent cousins, a grandparent that committed terrible acts, a complete other side of my maternal family tree because my grandmother had like 14 children between two different husband, so we're sort of in our own bands of W's vs H's. It's probably more common than you think.

  3. I grew up in a tiny ass town, in a farming and ranching sort of community where families have been there for 150 years minimum. There was one very prominent family filled with some very greedy fuckers that remind me a LOT of the Lannisters (minus the twincest) right down to the blonde hair. Just the books 1&2 Stark perspective of them anyway.

  4. What I found to be the most interesting line was when the author mentions he asked GRRM what happened with D&D and he says to ask them, refusing to tell anything.

  5. My assumption would be that D&D's egos ran away with them and they began to believe more and more in their own personae and forgot that the strength of the source material was what created the show's success in the first place.

  6. This is a normal line from GRRM. He really wants to avoid drama or a public spat fight. I understand and am a little proud of him for it. Other authors are sometimes public about their disappointed. Andrzej Sapkowski did that about CDPR and I'm like "but they did a good job"?

  7. My theory is that GRRM has an idea of how the show will end, but not how to get there. I also think based on his work ethic and how he's prone to be distracted by other projects he stopped giving D&D the level of commitment and explanation for how the shows ends, and they were left to wrap up the story how they saw fit, which we all know how that went.

  8. Apparently when they Killed of Ser Barristan, George wrote them a strongly worded letter telling them that was a bad idea (I assume because he has a bigger role in the book canon). They responded in the interview by saying "And that made us want to kill this character off even more".

  9. Frankly, until he puts out books proving otherwise, as far as I'm concerned his ending would've been the same as the series and now he's delaying because he doesn't know what else to do.

  10. Well supposedly he told them how it was going to end. At least that’s what everyone associated with the show claimed when they caught up to the books. They could have lied or he could be lying. Or he saw how much everyone hated it and has decided to change the ending. No way we will ever know because he will never finish the books.

  11. The cynic in me wants to believe this. He got the Free space on bingo to see how this ending was shit on. Maybe he’s reverse engineering.

  12. That’s the least likely scenario at this point, books or no. Reason: books 4 and 5 are hardly adapted by D&D, so we already know they went off script, and they took credit for horrendous plot points while pointing at George for others that weren’t received well.

  13. What could have happened? Obviously there were creative differences but quotes like this make it seem like there was a big blowup prior to George leaving the show.

  14. He's changed his tune quite substantially. He used to say the story would be largely similar but the details will be different, before listing off a bunch of secondary and tertiary characters not in the show. More recently he has been far more bullish about the differences.

  15. thats because we have. He continually says how different his books will be when they come out, totally guys any day now, the pizzas are coming! and not just 2, but maybe even 4!

  16. I think it was pretty telling that he said his ending would be like the show while the show was ending, and then went back on that as the show lost more and more relevance and clout.

  17. Is this supposed to be a problem? I fully expect HOTD to be better than the last several seasons of GOT for this exact reason. What about this is surprising or damning?

  18. Good. I’m not going to say I demand an apology or anything, but some acknowledgment that they fucked up and are going to do better this time is appreciated.

  19. Yeah, I honestly am tired of him talking about the book ending with no real update for the book before the end book.

  20. Well, it won't fucking write itself. I have absolutely zero expectations that GRRM will finish ASOIAF.

  21. Hibberd’s book paints a nuanced position. The show and the books diverged and George was finding it hard to balance the separate stories while writing Winds. If you look at, say,

  22. What I remember from the time was that he stepped away because he felt they weren't listening to him -- the final straw was Lady Stoneheart if I recall correctly.

  23. This was such a bullshit comment. Just look at his comments about it at the time, which was that he was going to stop working on the show so that he could finish Winds of Winter and not let the show pass him up. 8 years later, still no Winds of Winter, and now he's pretending like D&D just cut him out

  24. Becauwe he was still under HBO contract. It would be bad PR to say that show runners did pushed him aside. With this show HBO wants to leave GOT ending behind them and that's why they put him in every promotional material to show that he is involved. Not like in later seasons where GRRM was never seen in any GOT bts materials.

  25. I don't know the specifics, but when Discovery merged with Warner Brothers, the new, combined company assumed that debt - most of which came from the WB side of things.

  26. Don't know how many times Martin has to reiterate this point for fans to stop using the show to speculate about XYZ characters' endgame. The only three things Martin has ever confirmed are King Bran, Stannis burning Shireen and Hodor.

  27. Those weren't the only things he ever shared, just that he shared three "WTF moments" that he made sure D&D included in the script before the finale. I'm inclined to believe that the third WTF moment isn't King Bran, but Dany burning King's Landing.

  28. Whenever he says his ending will be "very different" he always makes a point of emphasising that it's because there are a lot of minor characters who aren't in the show, not because the major plot beats are going to be radically different.

  29. Martin better do a damn good job explaining how Stannis goes from “half my army is made of non believers, now shut up and come up with a better plan then burning people alive” to “haha time for roasted daughter”.

  30. Did he ever actually confirm King Bran? I think I've just read one quote about it and it said something about who was sitting on the Iron Throne, which didn't exist at the end of the series.

  31. I mean that was his choice though. He was supposed to finish the books before the series ended. He stopped working with the show to focus on the books. He didn’t finish the books and D&D shit the bed without his books to follow. Everyone sucks here.

  32. I guess it turns out that if someone's adapting a series of yours that you only wrote half of and you don't have a clear idea of how it ends, they don't need you for the last half of the adaptation. Who'd have thought?

  33. I'm pretty sure his ending will be very different. I'm positive not even a single word from S8 script will be in Martin's ending. Not even a single letter.

  34. This wasn't what he was saying before S8. In 2019 he said that ending of the show is based on his ideas from 20 years ago and that it won't be that different from the show's ending. You can find this video on YT. His interview from 60 minutes.

  35. It’s odd he said this now because back when it first came out he said it would be very similar. Oh well, not like he’s written the book anyway.

  36. I do believe things may be similar, Daeny Will burn Kings Landing in her war with Faegon AND Jon Will kill her AA prophecy, Bran as King Is 100% confirmed AND It makes Sense AND the stupid things of the Last couple of seasons Is GRRM fault for selling an unfinished saga

  37. I think he’s finally out of that contract that restricted him to shit on the show and talk real about his books

  38. Sorry, it was funnier the other 57 times it was said in this thread alone, and the other 79,481 times it was said this month.

  39. And again, I've been saying this for years.... The show's ending was Martin's original ending. And now, when he knows it wasn't received very well, he is trying to change it.

  40. So somehow backlash to the ending that was released on TV in 2018 was so intense that it rippled back through time? The progress on these books has been slowing ever since the year 2000.

  41. Progress was stagnant well before GOT ended and was lambasted. If anything, he’s made most of his progress since then if you believe his comments about writing during 2020.

  42. Does it really matter? As long as he comes up with something better I am fine. The real ending if fucking dumb. He would not be the first writer to change a planned ending.

  43. I fully agree. He may say now "things will be very different", but we know that after one of his recent posts about this very topic, where he admitted he has changed things lately.

  44. Except he has specifically talked about how fan reactions shouldn't be of any relevance for major writing plot points. "If you write the whole book thinking the butler did it, and you see someone online has figured out that the butler did it, ypu don't go back changing it so that the maid did it" (I don't have the exact quote but it's sth like that).

  45. HOTD will work if three conditions are met: if it respects the source material, if it doesn't lean into magical/supernatural stuff too much (sure, you have dragons and Mysaria but please, don't turn her into Melisandre) and if it doesn't insult the viewers' intelligence with nonsensical bullshit. GOT's later seasons didn't fulfill these conditions.

  46. I agree with everything except the magic part. Yes, F&B doesn't have a lot of magic and so HotD shouldn't either - but I think GoT would have been better if they had actually included a lot of the omitted magical stuff from the books. Characters like Marwyn, Quaithe, Euron...the dragon binder horn and Joramun's horn, the likely magical nature of Dawn...more detail about the mechanics of Bran and TEC's greenseeing...all of this would have added immensely to the plot of the main show.

  47. Yeah, this proves that anyone who was still holding on to hope (because there are some) that the ending to the books will be the exact same ending as the show should definitely stop believing that.

  48. I honestly don't think that D&D were creative enough to come up with the ending all by themselves. So I suspect they had some of the originally intended ending in their scripts.

  49. Anyone want to place bets about how many seasons it'll take for Martin to alienate the showrunners of HoTD? I'm guessing right around the point they start running out of material to adapt.

  50. Didn't he make a Clue reference about this phenomenon once? Something to the effect of, "If the audience finds out the butler did it, you can't change it midway to the chambermaid did it?"

  51. If by different he means he's not going to rush it like a morning shit when you're late for work season 8 style, I think after a decade or so we got the memo.

  52. one of my theories why George is procrastinating is the ending was actually the same and now hes scrambling to find something that doesn't suck

  53. What i do want to see Is to know More about the others not this mindless monsters that D&D created, i do want to see the Others AND Stark history

  54. I certainly hope so about "the ending". Being a supporter of the One True King, I'm fervently hoping King Stannis won't meet his fate in Ramsey Bolton's hands. His ambush plan to lure the enemies to a watery end sounds good. But the fact that it's mentioned - there's a strong possibility it won't succeed. Unless if Stannis has something else up his sleeve...

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