1. Yay! An opportunity to share my all-time favorite imagined dialogue from McSweeney's, "Macbeth and Macduff Get Into an Argument Over Semantics" by Raphael Bob-Waksberg:

  2. Even in Macbeth it was about not being born from a woman. It's still a strange thing to think that someone born via C section isn't technically being born from a woman but the guy was still considered a man even in that story

  3. Exactly what I was thinking ! Your friend is actually a MacBethian. You are not of woman born since ... "I was from my mother's womb untimely ripped"

  4. On my senior year when my class was reading Macbeth and the witches said “no man born of woman can kill you” we all joked that Macbeth would just get randomly mauled by a Tiger at the end. Pretty good imagery I thought

  5. It's not a Christian thing, as there's zero Biblical reference to a C-section, but rather, a cultural a/o traditional belief based on their own opinions.

  6. I have never as a Christian ever heard of such a crazy notion! OP, this is laughable! Tell your friend that mainstream Christians do not believe in such nonsense.

  7. It definitely is, there is a group of Christians who claim that anything not mentioned in the bible is not 'of god' so anyone born with the aid of modern medicine is not 'natural' or 'of god' and thus doesn't have a soul. Christianity has loads of whack-a-doodle off-shoots like this, they hide in all the most damp and dank corners waiting to ambush people with their absurdity, and they are without fall utterly batshit.

  8. Agreed, as an atheist who converted to Christian, i can safely say there is nothing biblical about the statement regarding a c-section.

  9. There are also women who have claimed that other women who do have C-sections are not "real" mothers since they did not give birth to their children. Some real bat shit crazy stuff out there in those Facebook mom groups.

  10. There are "fascist" mommy groups who vilify mom's who can't breast feed or had c-sections or IVF, etc. Anything other than a "natural" conception and v birth with breastfeeding is unacceptable no matter what the circumstances. Kinda like the anti-choice laws that refuse to allow for any exceptions.

  11. Yeah I grew up in a pretty cultish fundie christian environment and not once did I hear something like this. I heard a lot of insane things (part of the reason I'm an atheist now) but never that people born by C-section aren't real people.

  12. Despair thy charm; And let the angel whom thou still hast serv’d Tell thee, Macduff was from his mother’s womb Untimely ripp’d.

  13. It’s not a Christian thing, it’s a stupid gatekeeping human thing. I’ve heard variations of this: people who are born via C-section/conceived via IVF/not breastfed are not real people, and their moms are not really moms, as they haven’t “experienced all of the facets of maternity”. Yeah, that’s not how any of this works, and everyone’s experience is unique. There’s no norm.

  14. The Catholic Church believes IVF to be immoral but it doesn’t consider you to be not a real person if you’re born of it lol.

  15. He should tell his friend that he has committed incest according to the bible, because his dick has touched and was inside his mom's pussy...

  16. There are absolutely sects of Christianity that believe this and a bunch of other wacky things. For example, the Disciples of the New Dawn are a Christian sect that believe c-sections are not real births.

  17. Me and my sibling, both. Their's was an emergency due to cord concerns and mine planned because I flipped right side up to be a breach at 8 months.

  18. I'm a dude but reading all these comments replying to you makes me scared of the idea of giving birth. It seems like its so common for complications to occur and for shit to hit the fan. Thank god for modern medicine.

  19. My daughter was an emergency c-section after 36 hours of labor including; 2 membrane sweeps, Pertocin, and, 12 hours of Cervodil. She ended up 9 lbs and 1 oz.

  20. Christianity has nothing to do with this, he’s just an idiot. Nothing in the Bible says you’re not a real man because of a C-Section

  21. You can also mention the ten commandments are a Jewish creation that Christianity stole like literally everything.

  22. I’ve definitely heard of this argument. Definitely not a belief that most Christians hold.

  23. Absolutely, my friend was shocked when she was told she wasn't a real mom because her twins, of which one was dieing, were delivered by C-section.

  24. They also think you're not a real mother if you ever use formula. Theyre gatekeeping mommy groups with religon thrown in

  25. In most cases they wouldn't be a mother at all if not for the C-section. That isn't usually a choice women make voluntarily. Most of the time it's a worst case scenario, do-this-or-the-baby-dies decision.

  26. I’ve been told several times that i’m not a real mother because i had c-sections. “you took the easy way out that doesn’t count”. It’s stupid.

  27. It's so weird because in my catholic circle you're considered a mother even if the fetus doesn't survive to viability. Remembering celebrating Mother's Day for those pregnant and those who miscarried.

  28. A friend of mine in the LGBTQ community once told me there were levels of gay depending on how much you experimented with females before concluding you were gay. To be top level gay you had to be born via c-section, so you never touched any vagina ever. We were drunk. It might've been a joke.

  29. There’s this older woman on my rez that introduces herself to new men like “ Hi I’m Mirna, 2 sons, both c-sections, still tight!”🙄🤦‍♂️😅

  30. Don't worry, I'm bi and was told I wasn't gay at all despite making out with another dude in that same club a week prior. But you know, I'm straight as an arrow.

  31. Lol, that’s me then, Platinum level gay. Was a c-section and never kissed a girl. Do I get bonus points because I was bottle fed as well? My mom said I just wouldn’t breast feed and in retrospect we both find it very funny

  32. Your "friend" does not represent Christians or Christianity and should not be consulted or extended respect on any topic that requires any level of brain activity above a catatonic state

  33. "Christian" can honestly mean a million things. I'm sure there is some wacky flavor of Christianity where people believe this. You may need to ask your friend if they believe this makes you a lizard person, or means you have no soul.

  34. I am a Christian, and have NEVER heard anything like this! As if anyone is "less than" because of the way they were delivered!?! That makes no sense!

  35. Lol you’re not a true male because your mom didn’t die during childbirth? Because sure there’s plenty elective c-sections but usually they happen for a REASON lol

  36. I guess both of my kids are fake too then. Is that what we're calling them? Fake kids? I might tell them that. "Hey kids guess what I found out today. You were never born. You're not real!"

  37. I grew up in a very Christian culture, I was also born C-section. I have never heard of this before, I think your friend is just an idiot.

  38. It’s not a Christian or even religion thing, it’s matters of opinion. My atheist friend who I do love very much also holds this opinion. He also believes vaccines are to control us, and that abortions are for old rich people to harvest blood. People have wild beliefs based on how they are raised and influenced, I try not to hold it against him but I hope someday he breaks away from his current ideals. Not the atheism, but the wild beliefs he holds over other people.

  39. Yeah, that's not even a Christian thing. I dunno what the fuck it is. My only guess is that he saw the showerthought about how gay men born by C-section have never been inside a vagina, and got so confused that he wound up with "C-section = gay".

  40. Gay men who are born via c-section are considered “platinum gay” because they’ve never touched a vagina

  41. that statement has nothing to do with christianity so just remove that thought process from yalls heads. people just love to make christianity look bad

  42. The only thing I can think of is a horrible misunderstanding of pidyon haben in Judaism. If a woman's first born child is a male and not delivered by c-section (and a few other details) there's an obligation to redeem the son.

  43. Came here looking for this! It was the only thing based in some kind of religious fact that I could think of that might be influencing the friend’s comment

  44. Is this a home schooled Christian friend? This is ludicrous. Just so you know, there are women out there who believe that other women who deliver via C-section are not actually mothers. This is all nonsense of course.

  45. It basically started by women shaming c-section women cuz they didn’t have to go through intense labor. However that surgery and that recovery is no joke. I walked into my woman’s guts pulled out flapped over her stomach. Either way a kid is a kid. And both delivery options are hell on earth! Thank you beautiful ladies for doing what you do! We wouldn’t exist without your pain

  46. Not just Christian but I think a lot of super religious individuals veer off the teachings of their God and just start making shit up so that their idea of God fits into their fucked up world view even though some of those ideas are far from the actual teachings or common interpretations.

  47. It’s a batshit crazy thing but people actually believe this, I know a woman who had to have a C section and someone told her she “wasn’t really a mother” because she had a c section…

  48. Ok so I scrolled a bit and I'm sure this is going to get lost in the torrent of people saying "I never heard of this before!!!!" As if that's actually a helpful response but here it goes anyway.

  49. As a Christian I can say that makes 0 sense, this is the first time I’m hearing anything like this and I was also born by c-section

  50. Your friend is dumb for thinking that. You’re silly for caring. I’m an idiot for taking the time to point all of this out. We’re all retarded. Let’s move on.

  51. Welcome to being a mother. Didn’t have a natural birth or pregnancy? C-section, IVF, adoption, etc…. To a lot of people means you aren’t a real mother. It’s this super bizarre and toxic mommy group vile they spew and it’s insane.

  52. I've heard someone say that a mother isn't a real mother if they had a C-section. It pisses me off to no end. Our daughter was born via C-section because my wife got stuck at 5cm for hours and hours. It was necessary for both their sakes. It's major abdominal surgery and she'll always carry that scar, don't tell me she didn't go through Hell for that birth!

  53. I've never heard that as a Christian thing. I know there is (was?) a debate in Judaism about how to count first 'born' if the child was delivered via csection but I'm not sure if/how that resolved. And I have heard mommy groups throw fits about how you're not a REAL mom if you didn't give birth but as a Christian thing that's new.

  54. It may not have any bearing on how male you are but there is a thing in the gay community where if you are a gay male who is "so gay" they never even experienced vaginal birth, they are colloquially called a gold star gay

  55. It’s fine. The next time a megalomaniacal monarch pops up claiming no man born of woman can kill him, you’ll have your time to shine

  56. Actually this reminds me of Macbeth where one of the prophecies is that Macbeth will be killed by someone not born of woman. And of course he was like “thats impossible hahaha” but it wasn’t literal, it was figurative as apparently back in the day, anyone not born naturally was considered to be “not born of woman”, so I wonder if this is what your friend meant 🤔

  57. Not a Christian thing, afaik. Raised Roman Catholic (they’re the ones with the Big Prejudice) and it’s not a thing. Only thing I know of is Shakespeare’s “no man of woman born” could kill Macbeth, so could be killed by Macduff, who was born not through “natural” means, but through c-section. Otherwise I say your friend is full of shit, and pulling ideology out of his arse.

  58. Bro I have been Christian my entire life and have never heard this. Your friend is just weird. Nothing to do with his religion.

  59. Everyone here saying "Not a Christian thing!" is kind of missing the point. OP clearly says "christian friend" so this nugget of stupidity was presented to him in a religious context from a religious person. Which makes me 99.9% certain it was originally presented to the "friend" in a religious context.

  60. as a Christian i have never heard of this. reminds me of Macbeth tho. 'no man born of a woman shall harm Macbeth' (paraphrase) was the prophecy, but Macduff didn't count as he was born via c-section.

  61. I go to a Catholic school so I can offer some input. My theology teacher told us people born via any method other than vaginal birth or are conceived via IVF aren’t “naturally created with God’s will” and therefore conceiving a child with these methods is a sin. This doesn’t make any sense because literally a few minutes later she said every human was born exactly how God wanted them to be. Moral of the story is don’t try to seek logic in religious arguments.

  62. Well there's only one explanation: your friend is obviously Macbeth and he obviously has been told by some strange bearded ladies in the woods that no man of woman born can kill him, which is why he insists on convincing you that you're not a man.

  63. It's not a thing, it's the latest insanity for stupid people who are looking for things to be stupid about.

  64. Christianity is for the most part organised stupidity. Literally an organisation that requires cognitive dissonance in order to join:

  65. supposedly some mothers in poland state that if you get a c section, youre not a true mother - i still hope that post i saw was just a troll. And your kid doesnt have birthdays - it has extractiondays. It became a meme...

  66. One of my children had a difficult birth at a major Christian university hospital .At one point my MIL and I both could see the severity of the situation. I said to the doctor, "maybe you should do an emergency C-section" The doctor replied, "because this is a Christian hospital so we try not to do c-sections".

  67. Memorizing the Bible doesn’t make one a Christian. Following the teachings of Christ does. That’s what I always tell the hateful Christians I know, Jesus said to love one another and chilled with prostitutes. Who are we to think we know better.

  68. Not that it relates here but it is a thing among the gay male community. Which also may have some overlap? Anyway, if you were born via c-section and never once touched a vagina, you’re called platinum gay. It’s a status above gays who were born vaginally as well as ones who maybe dabbled in heterosexual activity. It’s supposed to be tongue in cheek but I know at least one guy who thinks he’s more gay than other gays because he’s platinum.

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