HEY! My ledger is 24 words!!!

Oops typed it in wrong in the transfer address accidentally I guess my entire life savings is gone forever.

Pointless. Fun fact: even when your private key has 256 bits you only need 2128 tries to get it from the public one. You don't get extra security by adding bits beyond 128.

Double fucked!

Mine has 25 ;)

I mean you could also say that we live in a world where people don't want to stake their life savings on not losing a piece of paper.

It's the safekeeping and of course the transfer of those 12 words, for example in case of death, that is really really hard. At least I don't have a satisfying answer. - And don't tell me about muh multi-sig and safe deposit boxes at 3 banks.

you can use a metal plate

So they'd rather let Scam Bankrupt-Fraud mishandle it for them. Understood.

Or forfeiting family wealth because of dementia. Bitcoin at this juncture is just bartering but with more steps and all the risks of cyberspace.

Make a backup, stupid.

What happens when they lose your paper will when you die?

You shouldnt be investing your life savings in crypto either way.

It's really not that hard.

A seed which can be backed up an infinite number of times on an infinite number of pieces of paper. Stop defending this numbskullery.

Our brain can store more then you think as a backup.

Yeah and it’s not only about not losing it, it’s no one else ever laying eyes on it. Imagine you trust someone at the time that has secretly memorised it then years later after a falling out they clean you out..

Agreed. The OP take is reductionist and silly. One could also say that the “12 words” are equivalent to keeping FIAT under your bed. Both takes have issues and greatly simplify the adoption issues that Bitcoin (and crypto writ large) have going forward.

If only we have the brain capacity to like remember things

Or you could say we live in a world where people have no life savings lol.

I just ordered my ledger cold wallet, the nano x that I can store on my phone. But I can’t help thinking my coins on coinbase, after these exchange fiasco dust settles, could be the safest place, when considering security and ease of use and transferability.

It is a problem and a draw back for many. No doubt about it.

I don't even know 12 words

You know at least 5!

This is an obscenely minimized take on an enormously complex subject.

Ya, the OP is greatly over simplifying this. Like if the consequences of losing or compromising your seed was similar to losing an email address or even similar to losing the paper title to your car then most people would go ahead and do it. But if you lose your seed phrase, no government body or lawsuit against the perpetrator can get your bitcoin back. Losing your seed phrase can literally mean losing a lifetime's worth of work and savings.

Especially because there is literally nothing comparable in almost everyone's live.

Just like this comment.

I am an IT guy. I can confirm that remembering any sort of password and interacting with a computer is too difficult for most people.

I second this. Until the use of Bitcoin is as easy as current banking it will never have full mass adoption. Whether that is good or not.

Can you just reset my password one more time today. Promise I'll remember it tomorrow.

Some people set their password as "password" and still forget it.

It wasn't all that long ago, on a geological scale, that humans or protohumans were learning to use tools. Give them a break.

But putting hundreds of thousands of dollars into scams like FTX is totally feasible

hey, don't talk about management like that!

Tattoo the seed phrase between your ass cheeks. Just make sure to not be cremated.

But then you'd have to kill the tattoo artist

😂

Better never have a prostate exam

We’re also so dumb, that we’ve gotten to the point where it’s okay to accept a totalitarian regime, known for infringing human rights on all levels, to host a massive international sporting event. Fuck fifa and Qatar and boycott Fifa. For the good of Bitcoin and the intelligence of humanity

Didn’t expect this comment here but yeah fuck FIFA

Sad and true

Always has been. Nazi Germany hosted the Olympics

So, you're telling me I shouldn't Gmail them to myself, with the Subject: Bitcoin Private Keys-Secret

So what's your suggestion for keeping the 12 words safe where no one else will ever see them and I'll never lose them?

[удалено]

Why does everyone keep saying 12? Am I the only idiot with 24?

Idiocracy is happening right in front of our faces.

True though but we just need to act on our own though at this moments.

Lol and people could just own a safe with a three number code to hold thousands of dollars but for some reason choose to use a bank.🤔

Difference: The content of the safe cannot be used to digitally transact anywhere in the world. And physical break in is exponentially easier than digitally cracking a Bitcoin wallet. Also fair to point out that banks do have Government insurance on the money, which neither a safe of cash/gold nor Bitcoin in cold storage or an exchange have, but that's only a small advantage.

Good thing I etched my seedphrase into a slab of titanium and keep it in a safe deposit box of my local bank.

Add a passphrase and that becomes basically a miltisig.

"I ain't doing all that." "Too much work"

Bitcoin is not for the masses, and thats the way it should be imho.

The only 100% real trust is three simple letters FTX

The problem isn't writing down phrase and keeping it safe. The problem is living with a partner that constantly throws your shit out without checking with you first

Mine is 24 words I have 4 kids I tattoo 6 words on each one other one day they will understand

It's about how easily you can lose those writings.

It's not about safekeeping.

People lose shit all the time. The risk is losing that piece of paper. This has nothing to do with being dumbed down but instead being presented with a prehistoric option that many of us would fail at

That’s insane when you put it that way. People have become so inept at being responsible for their own…anything? Yeah if banks made the average pleb do anything to keep their money safe, it would go the exact same way as crypto has. Surprised people can even remember their 4-digit atm pin.

I would consider it somewhat irresponsible to have my entire life saving dependent on a piece of paper, with absolutely no recourse if it gets lost, stolen, burned in a fire. In fact, it's nuts.

This tweet is such a stripped down simplified version of the truth it's staggering that they didn't realize the selfing.

Gotta earn and maintain your freedom folks.

Bad faith over simplification for the circle jerk.

"ain't nobody got time for that"

Adding a password on top of the the word list makes it feel much safer. No need to worry about people accidentally finding your word list. Look up "25th word".

Yeah that’s it, and not that they just don’t have to do it, because they have no pressing use for Bitcoin at all as a currency or store of value.

Or change a tire

Back up your seed phrase.

man how much money do you have that you think james bond himself is coming after you?

Best comment in the thread

I think you could improve on this with decoy wallets inside your power outlets. Just in case you are held up at gun point.

Or um. Store your life savings in an insured bank?

False it's not as simple as saving/memorizing 12 words. Crypto as of now is too complex and the learning curve is too steep for the average user.

Also have to pick the right software wallet and hope you didn't pick a bad one, and then better yet... Choose a cold wallet but the hope it doesn't break/didn't pick a bad one. This is where it gets challenging imo

Dumb post.

Disappointing how many people here have a problem with this. He’s absolutely right

We expect people to operate thousand pounds steel devices powered by explosions. Moving faster than they can really perceive what they are moving towards.

I was one of those lazy people, but this sub wore me down and I’m glad I listed to this sub and moved my coin off of an exchange. Took me a while, but I did it.

People able to buy some sats and move them on a Ledger are already part of a sort of "elite". Most of the people have absolutely no clue of what does that's mean. My best friend looks at me like if I am a living god when I am helping him buying sats.

Most people i know use cards only because they don't have to count when paying or receiving change.

Doubt, its probably cuz they don't want to carry around a bunch of shitcoins and shitnotes in their pockets.

The problem lies in the overall security of the devices used, the average device is full with potential harmful adware/apps.

We live in a time where "Couple's/Married" people need to look up the phone number of their Partners they see and speak to daily... 12 words is WAY higher a standard ☝️🤣

I don’t think widespread adoption is going to be helped by ignoring or belittling the fact that most people actually do want some protection and safeguards around their money. Accidents happen, losing all the money you own shouldn’t be a consequence. I’m sure it’s a solvable issue but internet hard man bullshit like this won’t help.

Personal responsibility is the new counter culture

You could also argue that people today don't want to risk their entire futures on keeping a piece of paper safe.

Call it what you want to call it, but we live in a world where increased adoption is associated with ease of use. You can try to fight it all you want, but the market will still win.

People make fun of the fact that 'people are too stupid to keep their own addresses'; they also ignore the coins that have been 'lost' because people are human and screw up. No human is ever going to *always* get it right. Eventually every person who self custodys with no way of recovery *will* lose access to their address.

I panic when a password requires both a number and a special character . . .

When has writing down twelve words and keeping them safe been a skill we needed at any point before now? What the fuck is that person saying?

A lot of people are saying that taking self custody of your bitcoin is "too hard for the average people".

Well as a somewhat tech savvy person, I don’t mind crypto, but I will say it is a PITA when compared to traditional forms of payment. It’s got room to grow, and the shenanigans that have been going on aren’t helping.

Haha, best comment ever and he's absolutely right

Also, lots of governments want to make this act illegal!

Considering how many scams happened it isnt a bad thing

hey, hes got the point!

Great post OP, and you are spot on.

We live in a time where people think that losing a piece of information means losing your funds is totally acceptable.

For me it's mainly the fees associated with sending them off exchange to a cold wallet. It must be done, nonetheless.

Sometimes it’s 24.

Yeah, i just asked this question. I just ordered my first ledger nano. I thought it was a 24 word key?

It's almost as it was part of a plan... Oh, wait...

12 whole words?! You know how many letters that in?!?! And I’m supposed to write them down on paper? What is this the Stone Age /s

Trust me, most modern and young households don't even have pen and paper at home.

Very Challenging. Reminds me of 1st grade when we had to learn how to spell.

Biden/Trudeau: "Vote for me and get legal weed plus these nice fat stimulus checks for doing nothing. Don't worry, it won't cause price inflation, we have Nobel Prize winning PhD economists on our payroll who will testify to this."

It's like reading an alternate reality time bubble..

That pair are a piece of work; feckless, foppish dolts. 😈

Nobody quit their job over a few thousand bucks in stimulus

Matt Damon lost all my money!!!!!! Sue him!!!!!

Oh give me a break, as if that's the hold up

Yet they can operate a gas pump.

Back when most people were illiterate this wouldn't've been a problem.

Doesn't matter whether you keep it. If billions are sold, you're still holding the bag

You can also store the key unencrypted to make it easier.

Its not so easy. How do I validate the words are correct. How do I validate my private key are derived from those words etc etc. We need a fool proof system where this is a none issue.

Just enough ambiguity to be plausibly valid.

Self-custody is what sold me on Bitcoin.

Amazing how infantilized the average first world person has become.

Facts

I mean this is kind of obvious. I understand the sentiment but btc adoption will not make the strides that this community thinks without a more stream line/safer approach to holding btc.

BIP39 is not supported by bitcoin core. BIP39 needs to use the same wordlist to recover the key, so the phrase isn’t necessarily transferable from one wallet to another.

This tweet makes me happy.

If it wasn’t for big brother there would not be 8 billion people in the world.

We thought we were smart. But, no. We haven't gotten stupid. We just can't hide/deny it anymore. Lol

It’s directly proportional to how much rent money you have tied up in kohls cash

The only people that are trying to convince you of that are those who wish to prosper from the demise of Crypto or those who feel that crypto is a fad and therefore unsafe in which case that would put them in of which is lacking the capacity.

I'm guessing you're going for the easy laugh here, and that you understand that much more knowledge and effort than this is required.

Just curious, I'm currently awaiting my ledger nano, i thought it was 24 words?

It can be 12, 18 or 24 words (although 18 words are rarely used).

I can still remember the Scout law from decades ago. That was 12 words. If only I still had the brain of then.

What you don't remember them? I do. Come to think of it it wouldn't be a bad start to the 24 word phrase. Add the nine principles of war. Add 3 more fav words of mine and I'm done.

‘’You will own nothing and be happy ‘’

You want me to do 12 things?

I can do 13, I'm Airborne ! 😎

People trust others when they need to take responsibilities for themselves. Just need to grow up.

Blame it on the smart phones that are teaching everyone to not write anything down because passwords can be automatically saved on the iPhone

I really hate the suggestion that you'll lose your life savings by losing the paper with your phrase. Just buy a fraction of bitcoin, 10 % to start. There's really not enough btc for everyone to hold 1, seeing how some of us hold more than 1 coin and the supply is limited. Leave the FUD behind.

Dude, I have 10 ga Titanium plates that came with my wallet. I etched the seed phrase into it, then sandwiched the plates together and welded the corners. Then I got a safety deposit box and in it went.

As Dwight Schrute said, you need to keep secrets from your computer lmao.

Shouldnt it be letters instead of words? Just asking not a native english speaker.

You should not buy Bitcoin if you are not comfortable holding it yourself.

And people are talking about how much easier it is to just trust the banks. I mean, sure, but that comes at more than one cost.

I’ve stored my words in safe place but still have anxiety if someone will find it.

Why not use a 25word password and put that somewhere else.

☘️

Bro just watch how people commute on a daily.