Easy. Realize that they will never be happy. They will act happy, sure. But inside they are empty. Never satisfied with what they have, whatever that may be. What you need to be concerned with is your happiness, because unlike them you can be content with the good things that remain in your life. You can appreciate the people who love you. You can keep the things that spark your joy and follow your bliss to the truth of your life. You can get just a little better every day until you forget what you saw in them in the first place. Live for that day. In the meantime focus on yourself. Work toward a better future without them. Their punishment is being themselves. They create their own personal hell wherever they go.
Man oh man. Jesus wept. Leave her now. Tell your children now. There will always be another milestone. Another excuse. Your children DO NOT want you to torture yourself on their account. They know more than you think they do. They know how she is and the day you tell them that you are leaving her they will dump Gatorade on you and throw you a parade. My daughter cried when I told her. Not because she was sad but because it made her unbelievably relieved and happy. She is a malignant narcassist and just as she has been abusing you throughout your marriage she has been abusing them for years as well. Just in different ways, but with similar results. You do not need to postpone anything. You need to lawyer up yesterday and if you think you can't keep you dick in you pants around her, strap on a chastity belt. In case you never noticed, she only uses sex to manipulate people, including her APs. People aren't people to her. Merely a means to an end, never an end I'm themselves. Be an end. Let it end.
You need to go through the cycle of loss. There are no shortcuts. Reaching acceptance is the goal, but you have to stop at all the stations along the way. Some of those stays will be short stops, other visits will take some time. Try now t to stay overlong at denial or bargaining. This is where many of us get hung up. Let yourself be angry. Give yourself permission to get sad about the relationship. You will be depressed for some time. You need to mourn the relationship, much like the death of a loved one, but since the loved one you are mourning is still up and about you need to make changes. It isn't going to be easy, but nothing worth doing ever is.
It does pass, gradually then suddenly. It is like a little bubble that pops one day and you feel the pressure is off. For me it took six months. Other folks it might take six years. Even afterward you will still have a bad day every so often when the past visits like an unwelcome relative. However, you can't wait for that day when the Hubble pops. You need to live today, in the here and now. That is the hard part, but it is also the best part. What I kept telling myself every morning when I woke up was that I will never have this day again. I'm not going to waste it on her. I hope that you can tell yourself something similar.
I think because what happened struck a deep seated nerve and trauma that I had growing up, feeling abandoned so it’s particularly hard. It’s like not only am I trying to heal from the trauma of this 8 year relationship but also from my childhood
I certainly understand where you are coming from. That is something only therapy can address, not a relationship. The remedy for trauma is not more trauma. I struggled with this myself.
YTA but don't apologize. What you were responding to was vile. You two were playing rock, paper, scissors with misogyny, racism, and general dysphoria. There was no way to win except to not play. I only give YTA because your girlfriend, whose only crime is shitty taste in friends, was hit with splash damage from you firebombing that loudmouth. You know, assuming this post is based in actual events.
Moving on isn't terrible advice, even if it was given by an asshole. You were married to a score keeper, just like I was. My ex could never get over that I had several fulfilling and passionate sexual relationships before I met her, even though from the first moment that I met her I treated her like she was the only woman in the world. That didn't matter to her, because she was keeping score. She cheated with three people that I know of, but knowing what an insecure and resentful person she is I wouldn't be surprised to find that she was trying to beat my body count. If you have a choice between being married to a score keeper and not being with anyone at all it is much better to be alone. At least that gives you a chance to find a real partner, and they are out there.
NTA. Divorce is the remedy for relationships like this, not anything to be ashamed of. You shouldn't need to stay in a relationship with an abusive, ungrateful cheater. Co parenting is preferable to this situation. Move on over to one of the support subs for infidelity and start reading other people's stories and you will discover that you are not alone.
Make the break permanent. Just tell her you need time to clear your head and never get back to her. Focus your time and energy on doing things and spending time with people who make you happy. If you take her back, she is not going to stop this behavior. She will keep on monkey branching and chasing the tingles. Life is too short to deal with that.
She was having an affair during what were supposed to be the best days of your relationship. What is she going to do when things get really tough? Unfortunately, she has showed you who she is and you must believe her. It is your turn to show her who you are. Hopefully you will have the inner strength to show her that you will not tolerate this level of disrespect and walk away. If you don't, she will be emboldened and next time will be worse.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I'm not going to say that YTA, but you do owe her an apology and an explanation. You do need to walk a mile in her shoes and offer her a pair of yours. Maybe you both need to compare notes and realize the extent to which the person to blame for your rift isn't even on the room. You did what you did to preserve a relationship with a extremely jealous and unreasonable person. Steal mommy moments? Lord above. You wouldn't have been stealing anything, but rather giving. Helping to meet the physical and emotional needs of her child. Her entire paradigm of motherhood was upside down. Children need mothering immediately, not when it is convenient. She is right about one thing, though, in that you should not follow her biological mother's example when it comes to child rearing. The damage to your relationship with your stepdaughter is already done. You can make amends, but only if you assess what was done wrong and not take her comment personally. It comes from a place of pain. It is hard to admit that we hurt someone when we didn't intend to, but it is important to be accountable for even unintended consequences of our actions.
The thing about narcassists is that their kids, who they should be guardians and protectors of, are often viewed by them as just yet another source of attention and validation. My ex was the same. Tried to turn both my daughters against me and shift the blame to me. When that didn't work she shifted the blame to them. Both my daughters had to go through her cycle, from idealization to devaluation to discarding, more than once before they had her figured out. His crying about no one wanting him to be happy is pretty textbook covert narcassism. He isn't happy. He can't be happy. The more someone loves him, the more contempt he has for them. The kids are not exempted from this, unfortunately.
Never let a cheater induce you to disfigure your character or change who you are. This is why I rarely think that staying with them is a good idea. You lay down with dogs and you get up with fleas. Everything that you do on this life leaves an indelible mark on your character. If you are feeling incapable of not cheating, then it is time to leave. Keep your hands clean. Get be the cheater more consideration then they gave you. More than they deserve, because deserve ain't got nothing to do with it. Treating others well is something you do for yourself. So you can look yourself in the mirror in the morning and like who is looking back at you. That relief you are seeking will come instantly when you turn your back on your cheater and walk out the door. Trust me on that.
I wouldn't. My ex had an AP who apologized to me, but I knew it was sincere because he broke up with her just as soon as he found out she wasn't getting a divorce and I was just out of the country at the time. I accepted the apology because it was a package deal with informing me of what was going on. The next AP, however, knew everything and his apology had strings attached. It was an apology not couched in regret but rather just an attempt for things to "be okay." I wouldn't be surprised to find that your stbx"s AP is attaching similar strings to the apology. As you have said, you are doing better. If you do not feel like you need the apology do not entertain it.
That is the kind of useless question that narcassistic personalities like to pose. Hobson's choice. No way to win so pick which way you would like to lose. There are no mulligans in life and the only purpose of the question is their ego. Either you say yes and therefore everything they did is justified or you say no and they get to play the long suffering victim. There is nothing they love more than to be "the real victim here." Under no circumstances are your thoughts or feelings a consideration.
Keep this in mind: whether or not you had the conversation it would have had no effect on the outcome. That's the point of the gray rock method. You need to emotionally protect yourself because they are going to do what they are going to do with no consideration of you. So you need to deny them your time, effort, and emotional energy. It is just a tool, but if you stick to it in time it will build gradual indifference. No discussion of the relationship; whether past, present, or future. You will feel better, just as you did before. You will recover, gradually than suddenly.
Narcassists will drop these breadcrumbs trying to reestablish you as a source of emotional supply. The only thing you can do is block, block, and block some more. Don't respond, engage, or acknowledge. Don't let them know it has made you angry. That is a win as far as they are concerned, but not knowing how you are reacting will drive him nuts. My ex did this for about a full year after the divorce. Just keep up the gray rock. Eventually she got so frustrated that not only did she block me back but she eventually deleted all other social media. Time is on your side.
This is going to be ok for a while, but unfortunately not long term. It pretty closely mirrors the first infidelity my wife had. Plenty of excuses, none I could argue with because they were somewhat based on actual events. She left her AP, sending him into a downward spiral. The problem was that solving "our" problems didn't solve her problems. So the next time an opportunity presented itself, she did it again. Then again. Her monkey branching back to me was not a permanent condition because all that I proved to her was there was no consequences for monkey branching. Unfortunately, you now find yourself in a similar situation.
This time is was your arm. Next time it will be your neck or your skuill. No, you should not marry him. Physical abuse only escalates. Your survival is on the line here.
Divorce isn't something you propose to save a marriage. It is something you propose when you are willing to move on, ready or not. You did nothing wrong checking her phone. Cheaters are liars and they need to live in a glass house during reconciliation. Clear windows, lots of Windex. Full transparency, zero complaints. That is why reconciliation so often fails. Cheaters are uniformly unable to change because they are incapable of taking responsibility for their actions.
Unless she "played along" by letting him book the hotel and showing up with his wife she wasn't really playing along. She was having an emotional affair, soaking up the attention and validation. Until she admits this and takes responsibility for her actions, this remains a red flag that ought not be minimized.
While this might seem like a breakthrough, it is just the next stage of grief. It will help you, but it will be all too easy to slip into old patterns. Three things that can help you right now: low or no contact, gray rock method when contact is unavoidable, and finally focusing on yourself and your future. Unfortunately, giving her your hatred is still giving her all the power. You need to have no relationship to her. You need to be indifferent. To get there, you need to let go of everything to do with her, especially your anger. Be well aware that she doesn't care if your reaction to you is positive or negative so long as she gets a reaction. Scream and rage at her and she gets to play the victim and act like her actions were justified.. Be friendly with her and she gets to pretend that everything is fine and her actions were acceptable. The only thing she cannot abide is being ignored. I had to tell myself all the time: ice, not fire. Freeze her out of your life.
It is much more difficult. You are with them every day and tested by their provocations. I attempted reconciliation twice and only called it after the third affair. I didn't know about the gray rock method. I didn't know about the divorce 180. If I did, I would have seen that everything I did played into her hands. As long as you stay with a narcassist, you are permitting them to feed on your emotions. You need to cut off their source of supply or you are never going to get anywhere. 10 years after our divorce she still tries to hoover me in every so often. Narcassists always want to restart the cycle. First they idealize you, then devalue you, then eventually discard you. They light you up, smoke you, drop you on the ground and then step on you. It is up to you how long you will tolerate that just because they are your drug.
I didn't didn't really need the MRI because on the x ray my spine was as crooked as a politician. I got one anyway and the doctor said that just looking at the MRI report made baby Jesus cry. I'm glad to hear that your shit isn't as jacked up as mine, but unremarkable MRI results don't mean that there is nothing wrong. Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence. There are other methods you can use for diagnosis.
I don't think that any further discussion with your mother on this subject will be fruitful. She sounds like she still sleeps with a picture of Ronald Reagan inter her pillow. When you have been told all your life that government spending is the devil it is unlikely that you will be able to put a halo on it. However, never second guess the process. It is tough enough as it is. If you really are not qualified to receive compensation you will be denied. Even if you are qualified you might still be denied and have to appeal.
Easy. Realize that they will never be happy. They will act happy, sure. But inside they are empty. Never satisfied with what they have, whatever that may be. What you need to be concerned with is your happiness, because unlike them you can be content with the good things that remain in your life. You can appreciate the people who love you. You can keep the things that spark your joy and follow your bliss to the truth of your life. You can get just a little better every day until you forget what you saw in them in the first place. Live for that day. In the meantime focus on yourself. Work toward a better future without them. Their punishment is being themselves. They create their own personal hell wherever they go.
Man oh man. Jesus wept. Leave her now. Tell your children now. There will always be another milestone. Another excuse. Your children DO NOT want you to torture yourself on their account. They know more than you think they do. They know how she is and the day you tell them that you are leaving her they will dump Gatorade on you and throw you a parade. My daughter cried when I told her. Not because she was sad but because it made her unbelievably relieved and happy. She is a malignant narcassist and just as she has been abusing you throughout your marriage she has been abusing them for years as well. Just in different ways, but with similar results. You do not need to postpone anything. You need to lawyer up yesterday and if you think you can't keep you dick in you pants around her, strap on a chastity belt. In case you never noticed, she only uses sex to manipulate people, including her APs. People aren't people to her. Merely a means to an end, never an end I'm themselves. Be an end. Let it end.
You need to go through the cycle of loss. There are no shortcuts. Reaching acceptance is the goal, but you have to stop at all the stations along the way. Some of those stays will be short stops, other visits will take some time. Try now t to stay overlong at denial or bargaining. This is where many of us get hung up. Let yourself be angry. Give yourself permission to get sad about the relationship. You will be depressed for some time. You need to mourn the relationship, much like the death of a loved one, but since the loved one you are mourning is still up and about you need to make changes. It isn't going to be easy, but nothing worth doing ever is.
It does pass, gradually then suddenly. It is like a little bubble that pops one day and you feel the pressure is off. For me it took six months. Other folks it might take six years. Even afterward you will still have a bad day every so often when the past visits like an unwelcome relative. However, you can't wait for that day when the Hubble pops. You need to live today, in the here and now. That is the hard part, but it is also the best part. What I kept telling myself every morning when I woke up was that I will never have this day again. I'm not going to waste it on her. I hope that you can tell yourself something similar.
I think because what happened struck a deep seated nerve and trauma that I had growing up, feeling abandoned so it’s particularly hard. It’s like not only am I trying to heal from the trauma of this 8 year relationship but also from my childhood
I certainly understand where you are coming from. That is something only therapy can address, not a relationship. The remedy for trauma is not more trauma. I struggled with this myself.
YTA but don't apologize. What you were responding to was vile. You two were playing rock, paper, scissors with misogyny, racism, and general dysphoria. There was no way to win except to not play. I only give YTA because your girlfriend, whose only crime is shitty taste in friends, was hit with splash damage from you firebombing that loudmouth. You know, assuming this post is based in actual events.
Moving on isn't terrible advice, even if it was given by an asshole. You were married to a score keeper, just like I was. My ex could never get over that I had several fulfilling and passionate sexual relationships before I met her, even though from the first moment that I met her I treated her like she was the only woman in the world. That didn't matter to her, because she was keeping score. She cheated with three people that I know of, but knowing what an insecure and resentful person she is I wouldn't be surprised to find that she was trying to beat my body count. If you have a choice between being married to a score keeper and not being with anyone at all it is much better to be alone. At least that gives you a chance to find a real partner, and they are out there.
NTA. Divorce is the remedy for relationships like this, not anything to be ashamed of. You shouldn't need to stay in a relationship with an abusive, ungrateful cheater. Co parenting is preferable to this situation. Move on over to one of the support subs for infidelity and start reading other people's stories and you will discover that you are not alone.
Make the break permanent. Just tell her you need time to clear your head and never get back to her. Focus your time and energy on doing things and spending time with people who make you happy. If you take her back, she is not going to stop this behavior. She will keep on monkey branching and chasing the tingles. Life is too short to deal with that.
She was having an affair during what were supposed to be the best days of your relationship. What is she going to do when things get really tough? Unfortunately, she has showed you who she is and you must believe her. It is your turn to show her who you are. Hopefully you will have the inner strength to show her that you will not tolerate this level of disrespect and walk away. If you don't, she will be emboldened and next time will be worse.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I'm not going to say that YTA, but you do owe her an apology and an explanation. You do need to walk a mile in her shoes and offer her a pair of yours. Maybe you both need to compare notes and realize the extent to which the person to blame for your rift isn't even on the room. You did what you did to preserve a relationship with a extremely jealous and unreasonable person. Steal mommy moments? Lord above. You wouldn't have been stealing anything, but rather giving. Helping to meet the physical and emotional needs of her child. Her entire paradigm of motherhood was upside down. Children need mothering immediately, not when it is convenient. She is right about one thing, though, in that you should not follow her biological mother's example when it comes to child rearing. The damage to your relationship with your stepdaughter is already done. You can make amends, but only if you assess what was done wrong and not take her comment personally. It comes from a place of pain. It is hard to admit that we hurt someone when we didn't intend to, but it is important to be accountable for even unintended consequences of our actions.
The thing about narcassists is that their kids, who they should be guardians and protectors of, are often viewed by them as just yet another source of attention and validation. My ex was the same. Tried to turn both my daughters against me and shift the blame to me. When that didn't work she shifted the blame to them. Both my daughters had to go through her cycle, from idealization to devaluation to discarding, more than once before they had her figured out. His crying about no one wanting him to be happy is pretty textbook covert narcassism. He isn't happy. He can't be happy. The more someone loves him, the more contempt he has for them. The kids are not exempted from this, unfortunately.
Never let a cheater induce you to disfigure your character or change who you are. This is why I rarely think that staying with them is a good idea. You lay down with dogs and you get up with fleas. Everything that you do on this life leaves an indelible mark on your character. If you are feeling incapable of not cheating, then it is time to leave. Keep your hands clean. Get be the cheater more consideration then they gave you. More than they deserve, because deserve ain't got nothing to do with it. Treating others well is something you do for yourself. So you can look yourself in the mirror in the morning and like who is looking back at you. That relief you are seeking will come instantly when you turn your back on your cheater and walk out the door. Trust me on that.
Always has been. Doesn't mean he's wrong, though.
I wouldn't. My ex had an AP who apologized to me, but I knew it was sincere because he broke up with her just as soon as he found out she wasn't getting a divorce and I was just out of the country at the time. I accepted the apology because it was a package deal with informing me of what was going on. The next AP, however, knew everything and his apology had strings attached. It was an apology not couched in regret but rather just an attempt for things to "be okay." I wouldn't be surprised to find that your stbx"s AP is attaching similar strings to the apology. As you have said, you are doing better. If you do not feel like you need the apology do not entertain it.
There is little you can do about regret other than roll it back a little further and regret getting involved with them in the first place.
That is the kind of useless question that narcassistic personalities like to pose. Hobson's choice. No way to win so pick which way you would like to lose. There are no mulligans in life and the only purpose of the question is their ego. Either you say yes and therefore everything they did is justified or you say no and they get to play the long suffering victim. There is nothing they love more than to be "the real victim here." Under no circumstances are your thoughts or feelings a consideration.
Keep this in mind: whether or not you had the conversation it would have had no effect on the outcome. That's the point of the gray rock method. You need to emotionally protect yourself because they are going to do what they are going to do with no consideration of you. So you need to deny them your time, effort, and emotional energy. It is just a tool, but if you stick to it in time it will build gradual indifference. No discussion of the relationship; whether past, present, or future. You will feel better, just as you did before. You will recover, gradually than suddenly.
Narcassists will drop these breadcrumbs trying to reestablish you as a source of emotional supply. The only thing you can do is block, block, and block some more. Don't respond, engage, or acknowledge. Don't let them know it has made you angry. That is a win as far as they are concerned, but not knowing how you are reacting will drive him nuts. My ex did this for about a full year after the divorce. Just keep up the gray rock. Eventually she got so frustrated that not only did she block me back but she eventually deleted all other social media. Time is on your side.
This is going to be ok for a while, but unfortunately not long term. It pretty closely mirrors the first infidelity my wife had. Plenty of excuses, none I could argue with because they were somewhat based on actual events. She left her AP, sending him into a downward spiral. The problem was that solving "our" problems didn't solve her problems. So the next time an opportunity presented itself, she did it again. Then again. Her monkey branching back to me was not a permanent condition because all that I proved to her was there was no consequences for monkey branching. Unfortunately, you now find yourself in a similar situation.
This time is was your arm. Next time it will be your neck or your skuill. No, you should not marry him. Physical abuse only escalates. Your survival is on the line here.
Divorce isn't something you propose to save a marriage. It is something you propose when you are willing to move on, ready or not. You did nothing wrong checking her phone. Cheaters are liars and they need to live in a glass house during reconciliation. Clear windows, lots of Windex. Full transparency, zero complaints. That is why reconciliation so often fails. Cheaters are uniformly unable to change because they are incapable of taking responsibility for their actions.
Unless she "played along" by letting him book the hotel and showing up with his wife she wasn't really playing along. She was having an emotional affair, soaking up the attention and validation. Until she admits this and takes responsibility for her actions, this remains a red flag that ought not be minimized.
While this might seem like a breakthrough, it is just the next stage of grief. It will help you, but it will be all too easy to slip into old patterns. Three things that can help you right now: low or no contact, gray rock method when contact is unavoidable, and finally focusing on yourself and your future. Unfortunately, giving her your hatred is still giving her all the power. You need to have no relationship to her. You need to be indifferent. To get there, you need to let go of everything to do with her, especially your anger. Be well aware that she doesn't care if your reaction to you is positive or negative so long as she gets a reaction. Scream and rage at her and she gets to play the victim and act like her actions were justified.. Be friendly with her and she gets to pretend that everything is fine and her actions were acceptable. The only thing she cannot abide is being ignored. I had to tell myself all the time: ice, not fire. Freeze her out of your life.
How do you do this though when you’re still with them?
It is much more difficult. You are with them every day and tested by their provocations. I attempted reconciliation twice and only called it after the third affair. I didn't know about the gray rock method. I didn't know about the divorce 180. If I did, I would have seen that everything I did played into her hands. As long as you stay with a narcassist, you are permitting them to feed on your emotions. You need to cut off their source of supply or you are never going to get anywhere. 10 years after our divorce she still tries to hoover me in every so often. Narcassists always want to restart the cycle. First they idealize you, then devalue you, then eventually discard you. They light you up, smoke you, drop you on the ground and then step on you. It is up to you how long you will tolerate that just because they are your drug.
I didn't didn't really need the MRI because on the x ray my spine was as crooked as a politician. I got one anyway and the doctor said that just looking at the MRI report made baby Jesus cry. I'm glad to hear that your shit isn't as jacked up as mine, but unremarkable MRI results don't mean that there is nothing wrong. Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence. There are other methods you can use for diagnosis.
I don't think that any further discussion with your mother on this subject will be fruitful. She sounds like she still sleeps with a picture of Ronald Reagan inter her pillow. When you have been told all your life that government spending is the devil it is unlikely that you will be able to put a halo on it. However, never second guess the process. It is tough enough as it is. If you really are not qualified to receive compensation you will be denied. Even if you are qualified you might still be denied and have to appeal.